The Jewish Case for Palestine: A Jewish anti-Zionist Perspective

by on October 31, 2023 · 29 comments

in History, War and Peace, World News

A display of crossed Israeli and Palestinian flags with the word for peace in both Arabic (Salaam/Salam ??????) and Hebrew (Shalom).

The following was given at “A Conversation on Gaza-Israel War” program at the Olympia Center, in Olympia, Washington on October 17, 2023, and revised 10/30/2023.

By Peter Bohmer

I want to share how my background causes me to support the Palestinian struggle against the Israeli occupation of all of Palestine including Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Since 1967, I have actively opposed the U.S. military aid and ideological support for Israel, and in solidarity with Palestine.

I mourn the deaths of 9500 people murdered in southern Israel and Gaza over the last three weeks (as of October 29th) over 1400 in Israel, mainly Israeli civilians by Hamas and over 8000 Palestinians in Gaza and growing numbers in the West Bank by the Israeli military, the IDF. Let us take a moment to reflect on this death of human life and the injuries of many more.

My parents and grandparents were Jewish from Central Europe, my parents grew up in Vienna, Austria. The German military and Nazis were welcomed by much of the Austrian population when they invaded in spring 1938. Germany immediately annexed Austria. My dad was 22 when he was incarcerated in Vienna by the Austrian Nazis and frequently  beaten. According to Nazi records, he was imprisoned for being “political” and Jewish.  He was released after four months. My parents escaped a few days later to France.

They wanted to leave Europe because they expected an imminent Nazi invasion of France. They were denied visas to Australia and Canada because of these countries’ antisemitic immigration policies. After a few rejections, my parents were admitted to the U.S. in June 1939. My grandfather and at least four other relatives were gassed to death in concentration camps.

Antisemitism, as anti-Jewishness, has been prevalent all over Europe and to a lesser but real extent in the U.S.  It continues today although less systemic. Many Jewish people as a response have seen their liberation and fair treatment as integrally connected with the liberation of all people, e.g., Karl Marx, Rosa Luxemburg, the many socialist Jews, in the civil rights and anti-apartheid movement and in the Palestine Solidarity movement.

Because of this history of oppression, I grew up believing Jewish people would not oppress others. I was naïve. A majority of Jewish people in Israel and around the world support a Jewish dominated state.  A Jewish state where Palestinians are systematically displaced from their land and are treated less than equal within the Israeli state formed in 1948; and less than human on the land Israel seized in 1967: the West Bank Gaza, and East Jerusalem. When you take someone’s land or enslave them, as15 what also happened in the U.S. there is a strong tendency for the dominant group to justify it.

On Facebook recently and for years, I have been accused by individuals of being antisemitic. An earlier version of this talk given on October 17th in Olympia, Washington  was censored and removed by Facebook administrators for being inappropriate. I am anti-Zionist which is fundamentally different from being ani-Jewish. The Netanyahu led Israeli government, many leaders of the Republican and Democratic Party and some Jewish groups in the U.S. try to undermine criticisms of Israel and support for Palestinian self-determination and justice by calling criticism of Israel, antisemitic.

Some criticisms of Israel are motivated by hatred of Jews, e.g., white supremacist groups in the US, and we should never ally with them in opposing the Israeli occupation.

Zionism means a Jewish State where the laws, educational system and major institutions favor Jewish people, and that Palestinians are second class citizens or non-citizens.

Zionism also means the right of return for anyone around the world who is Jewish while hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and their millions of descendants who were expelled from Israel’s 1948 created borders are not allowed to return. Most of the population of Gaza are Palestinians forced out of Israel in 1948 and their children and grandchildren. A Jewish dominated State where Palestinians have lived for millennia is Jewish supremacy.

Moreover, the Israel government has supported many anti-Jewish and antisemitic governments such as Hungarian leader, Viktor Orban in Hungary, and provided arms and military training to the military dictatorships in Guatemala and Argentina in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Israel was furthering US foreign policy in these actions, one important reason why the U.S. has been such a supporter of Israel. While opposing antisemitism, don’t allow Zionists to define you as antisemitic. My perspective is similar to Jewish Voice for Peace ( They have been organizing a series pf powerful demonstrations and sit-ins in, mainly in  D.C., demanding an immediate cease-fire and against U.S. support for the Israeli war.

It is not an exaggeration to call the Israeli occupation, apartheid; and Gaza an open-air prison that has become a concentration camp.  Violence and displacement by Israeli settlers and the IDF of Palestinians have also increased in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, as has the blockade of Gaza. Groups such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the U.N. Secretary General, and an Israeli human rights group, B’Tselem use these terms although we seldom find them in the mainstream media or by U.S. politicians.

This does not justify the killing of Israeli civilians in southern Israel but let us understand its causes did not begin with what happened on Saturday, October 7th but with British colonialism and the 1948 Nakba (forced removal of Palestinians). Israeli’s revenge, mass murder, starvation and collective punishment of Palestinians including the16 year blockade of Gaza is a war crime that is wrong and will not bring security to Jews.

All Israeli governments, Labor, Likud, Netanyahu, and the recent mass Israeli social movement that has opposed the Netanyahu government’s increasing authoritarianism  towards the Jewish population, are rejectionist. This means they do not accept Palestinians as equals, neither in the past nor present.

Whether it’s one state or a real independent two state solution, it must center economic and political justice and equality for all, especially but not limited to Palestinians. This includes the right of Palestinians to return to inside the 1948 borders that Israel imposed.

Since 1967, the U.S. has unconditionally supported the illegal, immoral occupation of the West Bank, the annexation of East Jerusalem, and made more than a dozen vetoes in the UN security council of resolutions critical of Israel. The U.S. just vetoed a UN resolution calling for a cease fire and negotiations. The U.S. provides $3.8 billion dollars of military aid annually and has committed to continue this through 2029. Biden just proposed an additional $14 billion of military aid to Israel, and it is sure to be passed by Congress.

Rather than supporting a cease fire, negotiations and opposing the massive Israeli bombing and invasion of Gaza, the Biden administration is sending Israel additional weapons and military advisers. The U.S, has sent since October 7th, two aircraft carriers and 2000 marines to the Middle East in support of Israel, and has given Israel carte blanche to invade Gaza and commit the murders of tens of thousands and further ethnic cleansing.

The more we actively support the end of the Israeli occupation and U.S. support for Israel, the more we have the right to criticize the Hamas killings and taking of more than 200 hostages. I differ from the few groups and individuals who justify the October 7th murder of Israeli civilians by the Hamas led attack. They claim because the Palestinian struggle is anti-colonial and for self-determination all actions are justified. The killing of Israeli civilians, especially those and their descendants who fled the Nazi control of Europe is wrong. Many of them were not granted permission to immigrate to Great Britain, the U.S., Canada, Australia and other countries because of antisemitism and had no place else to go but Palestine.  This does not justify the forced displacement of Palestinians but makes their situation somewhat different from other settler colonialists.

I am also critical of those who ignore or even worse, support the mass killing by Israel in Gaza, directly by bombing and the ongoing military invasion. But also, indirectly by blocking most food, water, electricity, fuel and medical supplies from getting in. To defend Israel’s increasingly genocidal policies by calling it self-defense is horrendous.

Israel claims a Zionist State is the only security for Jews around the world. Long run security cannot be based on the oppression and domination of another people. People will rise up. Israel is developing formal relations with and recognition by some of the conservative Arab states in the Abraham Accords.  That will not further security in the long run, as the population in Egypt, Morocco, the UAE, etc. strongly support the Palestinian struggle.

The Hamas attack of October 7th shows the limits of this immoral strategy of Israel. Even if Israel destroys Hamas, oppression breeds resistance and Israel will eventually be defeated. Moreover, this security state strategy moves Israelis further to the right.

For moral and political reasons, the security of Jewish people and Palestinian people requires the end of the Israeli occupation, the end of U.S. support for Israel, and justice for all Palestinians.

The goal of a Palestinian socialist organization, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, DFLP, is, “a people’s democratic Palestine, where Arabs and Jews live without discrimination, a state without classes and national oppression, which allows Jews and Arabs to develop their national culture together”.

Let us do what we can in the streets, in letters and by lobbying politicians to oppose U.S. military aid to Israel including the massive, proposed increases and for ending U.S. support for Israeli aggression. Expose and challenge US corporations like Boeing and Raytheon that have sent billions of dollars of  weapons to Israel, paid for by our taxes. Support the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) Movement against Israel.

Educate yourselves, friends, and family about the colonization of Palestine. It is a horrible situation for Palestinians, especially in Gaza and it is our responsibility to do what we can to change U.S. policy so that it is more in line with popular sentiment all over the world including declining U.S. support for the Israeli occupation. A minimal demand is for an immediate cease fire and an end to the Israeli siege of Gaza.

I often hear that Palestine-Israel is too complicated to take a position on, or there is no solution because Israelis and Palestinians are equally victims.  An insightful response in a talk at Evergreen by Khader Hamide, a leading Palestinian activist who the U.S unsuccessfully tried to deport for 20 years: “Palestinians are losing their land, and their lives and Israelis are losing their humanity.”

A common slogan among Jewish people and Israeli leaders is “Never Again”, which they usually restrict to Jewish people. The holocaust against Jewish people is horrendous but so is the holocaust against African people, Native and indigenous people, and others. Let us mean by “Never Again” for All People. That is both the moral and strategic position.

Thank You!

{ 27 comments… read them below or add one }

Chris October 31, 2023 at 2:38 pm

So what are your thoughts on the growing anti semitism on college campuses?


James October 31, 2023 at 6:00 pm

It is extremely sad to read this commentary from an alleged educated person with ties to the Middle East.
The author mentions just a small portion of the history of Israel, and it is woefully skewed and incomplete. Since the 1900’s, with the Ottman Empire and the involvement of the British empire, the insanity of World War II brought forth the necessity of a Jewish State.
Today, Israel:s the only fully Democratically governed Nation in the Middle East. All this talk of “oppression” and “apartheid” is unbelievable false.
People need to really inform themselves of the Middle East, the Ottoman Empire, Islam, and the Arab Nations. With that,you will come away with the strong understanding that beheading babies is definitely not moral.


Sam November 2, 2023 at 9:26 am

Couldn’t agree more James. The Hamas attacks are nothing more than acts of terrorism and Israel has every right to defend itself.


Frank Gormlie November 2, 2023 at 10:44 am

Uh James. Do you recall the status of Israeli politics way back this summer? Israel was teetering on the edge of becoming a dictatorship. Do you remember?

The government was seen as the most authoritarian since the founding of modern Israel and with the executive branch trying to force the judicial branch to be subservient, Israel was losing its democratic nature. So, we can no longer call Israel democratic. And yes, it has the right of self-defense.

Our country is also teetering on the edge of becoming an authoritarian state.

Second point: The Palestinians also have the right to self-defense — and more — they have the right to their own country. So, what’s stopping them from having one? Israel.

There must be a 2-state solution.

Also babies have the right not to die from bombings. More babies in Gaza have died than in Israel. Incredible! We have to count babies who have died?

You totally ignore the plight of the Palestinians and their rights.


Chris November 1, 2023 at 7:34 am

This might dispel some of the myths about Israel and its founding. While I don’t claim to say Israel is anywhere close to being innocent, things are not quite as black and white as many Palestinian supporters claim it is:

And regardless of who is right and wrong, anti semitism has been grown substantially (on both sides of the political spectrum) since the Hamas attacks.


Chris November 1, 2023 at 3:28 pm



retired botanist November 1, 2023 at 2:35 pm

I’m going to disagree with James, and I thought Peter’s essay was thoughtful and presented a POV shared, if not expressed, by many.
James’ comment “People need to really inform themselves of the Middle East, the Ottoman Empire, Islam, and the Arab Nations” unfortunately sounds a bit like the kind of comment “you don’t know what you’re talking about” voiced by those who disagree but can’t quite cobble a better rebuttal.
And no one except extreme terrorists would ever think beheading babies is morally right or justified, and is clearly not what Peter is trying to explain.
And fwiw, I consider myself reasonably educated on most cultural and religious practices in the Middle East, having spent 4 years in Turkey. I also graduated high school from a private Jewish girls’ school in NY, as well as having Jewish relatives in my family, so the understanding of the importance, and the need and creation of a Jewish State is not lost on me.
This is a very tangled, complicated subject and deserves respect from all of us, regardless of where in the room our view lies. :-)


RationalExhuberance November 2, 2023 at 11:51 am

> Zionism means a Jewish State where the laws, educational system and major institutions favor Jewish people, and that Palestinians are second class citizens or non-citizens.

By definition, this is entirely incorrect and throws off the premise of this article/opinion piece. Zionism has NOTHING to do with treating Palestinians as second class citizens. It has everything to do with the simple idea of the development and protection of a Jewish Nation, since time and again we have been shown by the world that the only people we can trust for true safety is ourselves! One can be Zionist while still being in favor of a Palestinian State in the West Bank/Gaza and also be against the current Israeli Government. As a Jew, that’s exactly my opinion along with just about every younger American Jew I know. There are Arabs in the Knesset, so I find it humorous to act like Israel represses other religions/societies within their borders. West Bank is another story, but let’s be accurate with what Zionism is, since that word seems to have shifted.


Chris November 2, 2023 at 1:33 pm

I with The Rag had a “like” button.


Chris November 2, 2023 at 1:47 pm



sealintheSelkirks November 2, 2023 at 2:52 pm

By the definitions given in a couple of these comments, and by the extremist violent propaganda being spewed by Israel’s neo-liberal right-wing politicians, the ‘collective punishment’ of an entire people is just fine to ‘remedy’ the crimes of the few. See the links at the end of this writing.

Under this concept, the ethnic cleansing of the Warsaw Ghetto during WWII was completely justified as was the Ghetto itself (the similarities between it and the largest open-air prison in the world, Gaza and the West Bank, is rather frightening I think).

Does anyone else find it mind-boggling that the Jewish descendants of the survivors of WWII are employing the same tactics that was used against their great-grandparents? No? Not one for understanding irony much, eh?

Funny that the majority of these Euro-Jews that invaded Palestine after WWII aren’t even genetically related to the ancient Hebrews of Palestine.

And remember, Jesus was a Palestinian Jew that tried to teach peace or has everybody forgotten that? But then the Roman Catholics had him killed. Another oppressor in Palestine…

So did the Euro invaders of this continent have every god-given right to
slaughter as many of the indigenous inhabitants as they could, and then locked them the few left in ‘tent cities’ (so-called reservations)?

And the next step after ethnically cleansing ‘Greater Israel’ will probably come to stealing what children are left alive and putting them in Jewish ‘Indian Schools’ for their conversion to ‘right-thinking’ and only speaking Hebrew and not their native language. Would anybody be surprised?

So, under this concept, collective punishment, anything is always justified, yes? And with that to chew on, every time another right-wing MAGA conservative GOPer grabs his AR-15 and shoots up a school or a theater or a store etc etc, we would be fully justified in blowing up any and all enclaves of MAGA-land like Georgia, Florida, Idaho…killing the neighbor GOPers and burning down their house and burying their children in burning rubble? Like what the IDF is doing now ya know?

Does that sound about right?
After Nuttyahoo showed this picture to the United Nations IN SEPTEMBER of what he plans to do, is it any wonder that he got the reaction he was looking for?

Yep, HAMAS is a terrorist organization. Or are they Freedom Fighters fighting for the land that was stolen from them in 1947 by Euro invaders when a million Palestinians were killed/expelled from their land?

The Zionist government of Israel is a terrorist organization. Or are they Freedom Fighters fighting to reclaim the land taken 2000 years ago?

Would the Natives of this continent be justified in doing the same thing to the descendants of the European invaders?



Chris November 2, 2023 at 3:36 pm

I will repost this link. I’m sure you will disagree with it and /or go into some long tangent about it but here goes anyway:

Israel has some some beyond awful things. I still support their right to exist.


Chris November 2, 2023 at 3:43 pm

And let’s be honest Seal. This IS in fact a “both sides are doing it”, and sometimes for the sake of good measure, victim as well as perpetrator deserve consequences.


Chris November 2, 2023 at 5:20 pm

Has done. I wish there was an edit feature.


Ration Exhuberance November 4, 2023 at 6:24 am

> Funny that the majority of these Euro-Jews that invaded Palestine after WWII aren’t even genetically related to the ancient Hebrews of Palestine.

This is a trope said by many anti-semites and perpetuated falsely by others.

1. Euro Jews began immigrating back to Palestine in the late 19th century
2. Mizrahi/Sepharic Jews are a majority (55%) in Israel, not Ashkenazim. Many Jews never left the Levant/Arab World.

Ironically the Sephardic population only grew even larger because every country they lived in ethnically cleansed them from their own populations within the last 70 years but no one care about that one. But that’s ok – we take care of own.

I won’t entertain some of the other falsehoods here


Chris November 4, 2023 at 6:56 am

Also, there exists no “Palestine”.

On another note, Common Dreams doesn’t really back up your point Seal. It only re-enforces your biased opinion of Israel. A good chunk of the people who comment on it’s articles in the conversation links are anti Semitic pieces of trash.

Yes Israel does some awful things. Ben is a true monster of a human being. But the fact is, it’s not an “apartheid” state. There have been Arab Muslim members of the Knesset since 1949 (something that never gets mentioned when people refer to it as an apartheid state).
The reforms going on there terrifying and horrible, but that’s a whole separate topic which still does not mean the country has a right to exist and defend itself.


Chris November 4, 2023 at 9:16 am

Meant to say the country DOES have a right to exist and defend itself.


Frank Gormlie November 4, 2023 at 11:09 am

There’s been a Palestine for hundreds if not thousands of years.


Chris November 5, 2023 at 5:18 am

Nope. There is never been a sovereign state known as “Palestine”. It’s simply an area.

As to it becoming its own country, the UA offered it and the Israeli Jews by and large accepted that. It was the Arabs who didn’t. This detail gets left out in discussions about Israel’s founding:


Chris November 5, 2023 at 5:23 am

And as I’ve acknowledged before, Israel is not innocent in all this. They’ve committed some horrific war crimes, but they are not a “fake” country and anyone who says otherwise is anti Semitic. It has a right to exist and defend itself.


sealintheSelkirks November 2, 2023 at 3:01 pm

Oops, typo: paragraph 5 “the Roman Catholics” should read ‘The Romans who became Catholics”.



Frances O'Neill Zimmerman November 2, 2023 at 11:30 pm

We are witnessing a colossal human tragedy here, fueled by ignorance and hatred and fostered by morally bankrupt politicians who manage to find personal advantage in the execution of this “war.” And fate is sorely tempted as expansion of this conflict to nuclear-armed nations in and beyond the region is entirely possible.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is a criminal awaiting punishment from the Israeli high court he would like to gut and officially dismantle. But since the savage “surprise” Hamas attack on October 7, Netanyahu now leads a coalition of all Israeli political parties and is determined to militarily annihilate Hammas within Gaza and any collateral trapped Palestinian inhabitants.

Netanyahu, who hadn’t been invited to the Biden White House because he has behaved unacceptably and dishonorably at home, was actually embraced on the Israeli tarmac by our American President who flew to be at his side within days of the Hammas incursion. Biden then promised millions more than our customary annual military aid to Israel.

Netanyahu has been called “Houdini” for his slippery political survivability. He seems to have his own “iron dome.” And Biden reassures Jewish-American voters of his fidelity to Israel as he enters a presidential race where he seems old and weak and is polling lower than Donald Trump.

Meanwhile, Doctors Without Borders, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, the Secretary General of the United Nations, the friendly neighboring King of Jordan call in vain for humanitarian aid for Gaza to be allowed and for a cease-fire to end the slaughter of Palestinians there. We should join them.


Bearded OBcean November 3, 2023 at 12:29 pm

There was a ceasefire in place on October 6, and there are Americans who are being held hostage right now. Netanyahu will be finished in short order, but why isn’t anyone demanding they be released?
I just find it curious that so few are holding Hamas responsible for the atrocities. Does anyone actually believe think that if Israel steps back and pauses, Hamas will as well?
Seems like if the hostages are released and Hamas unconditionally surrenders, this would all be over pretty quickly.


sealintheSelkirks November 5, 2023 at 1:21 pm

The thoughts on whataboutism that both are killing each other, there is this to consider:

Humans have been there for 1.5 million years according to Wikipedia:

The invention of Judism is supposedly only 4,000 years old.

Who invaded whom in 1947 and started an insurrection until 1948? Who started this modern-day death & displacement Pogrom with the ‘removal’ of 800,000 Palestinians so ‘Israel’ could be re-invented after the Roman Legions destroyed the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO.

Romans, not Palestinians, ended Jewish rule:
As for the current last 75 years:

Who arms civilian ‘settlers’ so they can walk into any family home or farm they want to, that multiple generations of people have owned, lived, and are buried on, and point guns and commit violence while throwing them out all because their ‘god’ told them they could do that? Did they get a recording of their god telling them it was okay?

How about building giant walls and electrified razor-wire fences so the families that are still in the villages can’t get to their orchards and fields that had fed them and their families for a thousand years? Oh wait, the newly invented country’s government took all the water, stole the wells, so they couldn’t farm them anyway. Until ‘settlers moved in and claimed all that land and were issued ‘deeds’ by the self-same government.

The list of constant atrocities against a civilian population by the Israeli government/militarized police/IDF/and the ‘settlers’ is just a freaking enormously long list.

Look around; European Colonialism (which the US also is part of) is still very much apparent all across this world. Certainly is a lasting legacy isn’t it? Lately even France has been getting itself kicked out of African countries at this point. Original populations are tired of it I’m guessing?
For a little historical perspective/analogy, try to put yourself into Palestinian shoes. Just for a few moments. So imagine this:

Everyone not of native Kumeyaay blood a people who have lived in the San Diego area for about 12,000 years, would have no problem when a group of well-armed natives walked into YOUR house saying they’re reclaiming what was their ancestors, GET OUT or DIE, because their gods (which are obviously older than your gods) said it was okay.

Since it’s only been just a few hundred years since the Europeans (Spanish) first showed up and ‘claimed’ the Kumeyaay land, all the descendants of the recent European invasion will gladly, and without an instant of protest, walk your entire extended family to a tent/shack/designated acceptable ghetto area with whatever you can carry to… oh let’s call it a ‘reservation’ shall we, that the just invented Kumeyaay government demanded you all do (remember, guns are pointed at you!). I’m sure there are a couple of excellent spots to put all the Euro invader descendants in San Diego County, yes? Then surround them with walls, guard towers, etc etc.

And 75 years later, when that government decides to evict the growing population from inside the walled-in heavily militarized border from that tiny patch of land surrounded by enemies that call you cockroaches and human animals (remember Nuttyahoo just showed that map in Sept to the UN with NO PALESTINE), your descendants will gladly go…all because some of your fellow ‘transplanted refugees’ finally got pissed at how they’ve been treated all the intervening years and just up and attacked. And of course you’ll all happily live ever after in decaying tents refugee camps in the desert of Egypt…pardon me…the desert east of Mexicali with no way to feed your family. Sure you will.

Did I get that about right?
How many tank battalions does HAMAS have to fight with? Armored cars? Artillery? How big is their modern attack fighters and bomber-filled air force? How well equipped with modern techno-weapons like the US gives/sells to Israel do the Palestinians have? How big is their Navy and the number of submarines? This isn’t really a war in the sense of two major well-equipped armies. This is David vs Goliath and Israel isn’t David…

And since the US gives billions in our tax dollars for them to ‘buy’ US weapons (all those weapons being pretty much a great way to enrich the US wealthy that own the war corporations), the prisoners in the largest open-air prison on the planet are very much out-gunned.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, how many nuclear bombs does Israel really have? That Israeli physicist that was imprisoned for a couple decades for letting that info out said then 300, but other recent ‘sources’ say ‘only’ 50. Even so I’d imagine 50 US B-61 350kt weapons would do incredible amounts of damage because, remember, Hiroshima was just a measly 15kt… There’s a threat that can’t be ignored, eh?

And why are there huge demonstrations of Jewish people rising up and loudly saying “NEVER AGAIN” to genocide around the planet? I’m assuming they are considered ‘self-haters’ (a term I’ve recently read about) though maybe they just have a better-developed sense of ethics and don’t want to see happen the genocide that they went through last century? Or be a part of. Not in my name has meaning.

Chris: you said “Ben is a true monster of a human being.” Do you mean that Israel now has it’s own Hitler since that seems to be the modern standard of what a human monster is.

rich riel: Snakes in their house? Do you mean that the Palestinians should never have let the British establish out of their colonialist power a ‘Jewish right’ to creating an Israel homeland after WWI? The Arab vs Hebrew conflict really got going it seems from reading about the history from different sources, so maybe the people that lived there before should have stopped the Zionist ‘snakes’ who were making war?

Bearded OBcean: Why are you surprised? As an example, the US NEVER gets held accountable for its atrocities across the world. Even the on-going ones! Hell, let’s ignore the US war on Mexico, it’s war on Spain (remember the Maine!) etc etc, and is still in Iraq and has bases in Syria that are ‘guarding Syrian oil fields’ that are being drained by foreign oil corporations. Did ANYBODY in the Wbush administration go to jail for the absolute destruction of Iraq and the death of over 1 million Iraqis (Lancet study)? The kettle calling the pot ‘how grimy you are!’

And bluntly, I do NOT condone murder but it seems that’s what our species is really, really good at looking back throughout our written history (and what the anthropologists have discovered pre-writing). It’s what we do and there is no end to the justifications for killing those ‘others.’ This is what we do over and over and over and over ad infinitum. I guess we should be used to this by now, eh?

Back to chainsawing firewood in today’s rain downpour break in storms.



Chris November 6, 2023 at 4:00 pm

My point in saying Ben is a true monster is to point out that you can support the existence of Israel and even be a “Zionist” (by its most basic definition) and still not be a supporter of Netanyahu because he IS in fact a monster trying to turn Israel into a dictatorship. I know you know this. It’s why Israel itself is deeply divided.
You and I will never see eye to eye on Israel’s existence, but there really are two sides to this. You kind of gave an example in your very post, even if you werent meaning to.

Yeah I suppose your right about our species. I gave the long story (over a year ago) about being thrilled standing on the flight deck of the USS Peleliu watching the missiles being fired from the USS Philippine Sea into Afghanistan. So it’s safe to say all humans deep down in the right circumstances will condone murder or at least excuse it. In the long run, that’s exactly what war is.

Back to the topic, anti semitism has EXPLODED in the past few weeks. I have many close friends who’ve been experiencing it, regardless of their own personal take on Israel’s retaliation agains Hamas.


Chris November 5, 2023 at 7:42 pm

BTW, f**** the BDS movement:


unwashedwalmartThong November 6, 2023 at 5:42 pm

Whew, that was a lot to read!
Voted for Biden last time around because Trump is a retarded moron; ain’t voting for Biden again because of his stance on Israel; bought ‘n paid for
zionist supporting the warmongering of the Israeli government.


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