Sustainability 101: The Rebirth of Riding Wood: An Interview with Larry O’Brien and Mike Shourds

by on December 30, 2020 · 39 comments

in Culture, History, Ocean Beach

coronadomike: Some people aspire to Endless Summer, but Timeless Summer is also a nice goal. Mike Shourds on the beach near the Hotel Del Coronado.

Originally posted August 23, 2012

By Terrie Leigh Relf

Nothing says OB more than surf, sweet boards, and social consciousness!

Larry O’Brien sliding into a mellow wave at Sunset Cliffs on a three foot plywood board.

In the following interview, OBcean Larry O’Brien, vintage body board collector, cave explorer, and aspiring eccentric shares one of his many passions: Creating boards from found wood and other materials.

UKbellies: a school of vintage British bellyboards.

Coronadoian “Paipo Mike” Shourds, builder of wooden body boards and recycled junk bikes since 1960, is also a collector and all-around creative person.

Terrie Leigh Relf: What inspired you to create your body boards?

Larry O’Brien: Back when I was in junior high school, carpentry was something taught in school, and sex was something you learned on the street. Making a three-foot plywood belly board was one of the elective projects for eighth graders. I didn’t make one, but some of my friends did, and then rode them. At that time, I was more interested in bodysurfing.

iron: a salvaged vintage ironing board modified with rail handles (sissy bars) on the bottom.

Nowadays, most woodshops have been removed from our schools, and I think there is only one that serves the citywide adult continuing education programs. So, woodworking has become something you learn at home or on the street. Fortunately, the Internet has been a real game-changer, and I think it’s been the biggest factor in the rebirth of riding wood.

I have no trade secrets. I freely share my designs and building techniques. I want people to make their own boards. We must keep the flame alive. I remain hopeful that someday we can liberate the glee club, and teach kids woodworking in all of the schools.

I’ve been a collector of vintage surfboards and belly boards for many years. It was only about ten years ago that I started making my own wooden boards. I don’t do it for profit. To me, they are ride-able art, and they also tickle my inner mad scientist.

babar: scrap plyood paipo with anti-pearling canards made from the arms of a broken chair.

Mike Shourds: I also started making wood boards back in 1960. My dad wouldn’t buy me and my brother a surfboard, so he gave us a ½” sheet of plywood and a jigsaw and said, “Make one.” Thanks dad! The beach was our playground when we were kids, so everything rotated around it.

Terrie: Larry, how did you come up with the name “beach toys”?

Larry: I might have got beach toys from one of my friends. I use it as an umbrella term to cover a wide range of surfcraft sizes and construction methods. There are many specific terms, like surfboard, bellyboard, paipo, alaia, lamaroo, bodyboard, handboard, handplane, and even Royal Egyptian Cubit Board. Calling them beach toys helps to keep it simple.

Terrie: Have you experimented with other recycled materials for your ride-able art?

Larry: I repurposed a large waiter’s tray simply by putting a bodyboard leash on it. It was a fun experiment. It still makes a good tray, and that can come in handy at the beach. A while back, I made a handboard (mini paipo) out of the lid from a toilet seat. I added a layer of cork to bring up the buoyancy. I even glued on the hotel label that says: “Sanitized for your protection.”

inoutboards: Mike Shourds In and Out boards that are designed to be ridden in either direction depending on your mood and surf conditions.

Last year, I made a bellyboard out of an old ironing board. It was one of those wooden ironing boards that fold down out of a wall cabinet. I added handles and a tailblock made from recycled wood. I must confess that I bought a new ironing board cover for it. It was an impulse buy. I couldn’t resist the 60s pattern.

I haven’t recycled any cork bulletin boards, but that is certainly a good source. I still have a bunch of cork that I bought used. It had been shelf padding at a retail store, so it’s repurposed in a sense, plus cork is relatively sustainable as it’s periodically harvested without killing the tree. Cork has several benefits when used in surfcraft. It makes a wood board float better, it offers some padding, and you don’t need wax on the deck.

Mike: I make them from all kinds of scrap wood I find on my walks with the dogs. I don’t repurpose broken surfboards so much any more because it requires chemicals like resin.

Terrie: What’s the most exciting wood you’ve worked with?

herohandle: A nose handle that also serves as good mount for a Hero camera.

Mike Probably the most exciting wood I’ve ever worked with is lightning-struck poplar. I get it from a guy in Illinois who has a small lumber mill in his background and recycles trees that would normally go to the landfill. He sells it cheap on EBay.

Larry: There’s a lot of good work being done with a farmed tree called pauwlonia. It’s light, but strong enough that it doesn’t need to be fiber-glassed. There’s no longer any need to make surfboards out of old-growth redwood.

Terrie: Have you collaborated with anyone on projects?

Larry: I neglected to mention Lazarus boards. It’s a process that Mike and I brainstormed. Essentially, it involves making a bellyboard or two from a broken fiberglass surfboard. The goal is to minimize the waste and the amount of chemicals needed to make the board ride-able. Conventional wisdom is to strip the fiberglass off the broken surfboard, reshape the foam, and then add more fiberglass and resin. By contrast, a Lazarus bellyboard gets a wide wooden tailblock glued onto the broken edge of the surfboard. Then, it’s sealed with varnish, epoxy resin, or both.

goddess: A Goddess board at the beach .

Mike Made one or two just for fun. Waste not; want not. Larry and I took some broken surfboards, cleaned up the edges, squared them up, and finished them off.

I worked on the ironing board with him, too. Sanded it up, then re-glued it because it was cracking up. It didn’t need resin. Larry put on some rails and then varnished it all up. I haven’t used as much cork as Larry.

Terrie: Mike, could you talk a bit about glue, resin, and varnish?

Mike:  Most varnishes are naturally based. Polyurethane is actually natural. Any kind of mineral spirits come from pine trees and aren’t toxic. You can get water-based varnish, but it doesn’t hold up as well. I also use linseed oil, and that’s natural. Larry uses hemp oil, and buys it by the gallon at People’s, I think.

baseboard: A Mike Shourds paipo recycled from old baseboard molding.

For glue, I just use Gold Medal All Purpose White Glue. It’s a glue that wood carpenters use because it’s water proof. You just clamp it and it sets overnight. I also use Titebond II. The container doesn’t say what’s in it, but it’s not like you’d use a lot, just enough to coat the board and glue it together.

Terrie: What is the greenest product you can use to seal your boards?

Larry: That’s one of those questions that have more than one answer. Raw Tung oil thinned with citrus solvent is a really good choice. It dries (polymerizes) quickly without the aid of the chemical driers that are contained in many of the usual retail products. Some people will insist on water-based products. Tint and pigments can slow the UV damage, and longevity is certainly a green factor to consider. Sometimes, the greenest choice involves using up a product that you already have in your house or garage.

Mike:  Hemp oil and boiled linseed oil. Boiled linseed oil has probably been around for thousands of years. It’s been used with carpentry forever, and was probably the only way to seal wood way back when.

Terrie: Are your creations for sale?

wicked: a mini paipo (handboard) made from small lumber scraps. Oiled with exterior Watco.

Larry: I don’t currently sell or give them away, but I might consider donating boards for charity raffles and auctions. That would be more likely if I could team up with a real artist like Michael Dormer or John Tafolla. For now, I just prefer to share my boards and information about them. It’s like the difference between giving a person a fish, and teaching them how to catch their own for the rest of their life. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with selling boards made from sustainable or recycled materials, but I just don’t have the time to make them in large numbers. If you don’t want to build your own, then Jon Wegener and Christine Brailsford are a couple of builders that sell pauwlonia boards locally.

Mike:  If someone wants one, I will sell them one. I would rather show them how to make one, though. That would be much more rewarding. The kids down the block wanted one but didn’t have the money, so I gave them the wood and showed them how to do it. Once they’re done, they can bring them back and I’ll help them finish them off. Then they’ll know how to make another one.

poplace: A Mike Shourds paipo made from poplar and lacewood. A fine example of ridable wooden art.

That’s how I started. My dad showed me how to use the tools, and the first ones I made were about as crude as you can get. When I look at things or watch people doing something, like laying tile, for example, I think, “I can do that. I just need to know how to do it.”

What happens is you come to a realization. You learn by doing, by asking others to show you how. Or, you get a book or a pamphlet. Making the things we use, like shoes, or completing tasks like changing a tire or the oil in your car, is a lost art. People just want to have someone else do it for them. They don’t want to get their hands dirty. It’s sad.

Terrie: Any other comments on sustainability, being an artist, or creating functional art?

Larry: I think sharing knowledge is the best way to reduce the amount of new plastic used for surfcraft. I say new plastic, because I have some future projects that will involve recycling or repurposing plastic into surfcraft.

pineshelf: A Mike Shourds paipo made from simple pine shelf. You probably have one of these shelves in your garage, and it’s just dying to go to the beach. “Woof. Woof. I want to go to the beach with you.”

I’d like to see the general public get better access to unwanted materials at the landfill. The free section on Craigslist is a good source, but we could have one-stop shopping at the landfill. That would be greener with less driving around and more time for art.

Mike:  There’s this guy who recycles old wood from barns. The wood is probably over 100 years old. People seem to like distressed wood for flooring.

There’s also a guy who mines elm logs out of the Great Lakes. These are probably 150 years old, as the Dutch elm disease took them down in the 30s or 40s, like the bark beetle here with oak trees. Some of those elm logs are worth over a half-million dollars.

penzy: a California retro version of a vintage British bellyboard. The tail block is a mix of light and dark poplar.

I just pick up wood, an old cabinet or dresser, then break it down and use the wood The only wood I usually buy is birch at Home Depot. I find better wood on my own.

Terrie: What about your creative process?

Mike:  I don’t consider myself an artist, although I’m sure some people consider what I do as art. I’m an all-around creative person and get all these ideas when I go out in the water by myself. Sometimes, I get these crazy ideas and then go home and try them out, like the slingshots I make. It’s a thinking process, always spinning. I think, yeah, I could make one of those. I make a few, think, that’s not it, that’s not it, then I get the right design. Good old trial and error.

okie: a modified wake board made from cork and plywood. Small rail fins at the tail end can also be handles if you ride the board backwards.

I think that’s how we got to where we are today. Back in prehistoric times, the people would spy a dinosaur, wonder if it tasted good. Yuck. Then they see a mastodon, and realize after eating it that they had enough hide to make a tent, shoes, etc. This is where creativity starts. People forget these things nowadays. They just go down to Wal-Mart.

I think along the same things as Larry in this. There should be classes on doing normal things: How to unplug a toilet, change a light bulb and all those other basic day-to-day things. It’s sad how we live in a throwaway society.

Terrie: What are some of the projects you’re working on now?

Larry: My latest path is something I call Goddess boards. The template was inspired by the ancient Goddess figurines. There is always a trade-off between speed and maneuverability, and I think those goals are well balanced in a Goddess board.

Mike: I’m working on a double hand board from trash can wood. It’s like a miniature catamaran that you hold out in front. Still working on a few other hand boards.

oakfish: A Mike Shourds oak fish made from a jobsite reject. Perfectionism almost doomed this nice piece of wood to the landfill or fire pit.

Terrie: Thank you for your time, Larry and Mike. Anything you’d like to add in closing?

Larry: I recently attended an event in La Jolla called the Paipo Stokefest. It was awesome. It harkened back to a time when surfers weren’t as numerous, and the meeting of tribes was a happy occasion. That morning in La Jolla was filled with genuine curiosity and camaraderie. When I left the Stokefest, I found a broken Styrofoam bellyboard in the beach trash. Those Chinese boards usually only last one day at the beach. It’s planned obsolescence on steroids. Please don’t buy them for your children.

Mike:  I like to help kids make something they can ride and be proud of. Something other than that Chinese junk.

Terrie: Stay tuned for the next segment where Larry and Mike take me to Coronado to ride a paipo. No doubt we’ll discuss how to upcycle that broken Styrofoam bellyboard cover, and will have even more photos to share!

junk: Chinese junk like these styrofoam bodyboards usually last one day, and then end up in our beach trash cans. Everybody would be better off if parents simply rented a decent bodyboard for the day.

nutter: A modified skimboard with a peanut template. Cork deck on a plywood base.

Most photos by Mike Shroud; photo captions by Larry O’Brien.


{ 37 comments… read them below or add one }

bodysurferbob August 23, 2012 at 11:11 am

now this is what i’m talkin ’bout! excellente! the boards are gorgeous and this issue goes right to me heart. nice goin’ guys.


Larry OB August 23, 2012 at 3:01 pm

Health advisory for North OB River mouth today. High bacteria. No explanation, yet.


Terrie Leigh Relf August 23, 2012 at 6:58 pm

And they are oh-so-much fun to ride! Thank you for letting me interview you both and for the great time at the beach! I’m looking forward to seeing the photos that Pam took. . .but let’s not post the one where I look like a sea monster!


King of Nobes August 23, 2012 at 11:54 pm

Very well done and the article is well written. Keep up the good work Men.


Rod August 24, 2012 at 7:41 am

Nice article Larry and Mike!


Larry OB August 26, 2012 at 11:04 am

Thanks. I’m glad you enjoyed it. It might be a little long-winded for many blog readers, but it really just scratches the surface. It’s a jumping off point for a journey that you have to take one wave at a time.

Offline someone asked me about the turbulence in the photo of me on a wave. The board is dead flat, and the nose doesn’t push water. The whitewater ruckus was caused by me taking off with my arms outstetched, and then pulling the board back to me when I knew I was in the wave. It all happens very quickly in real time. The camera just managed to catch the ruckus I made while getting into elbow leverage position.


Moleman August 26, 2012 at 9:46 pm

Great article!! “Aspiring eccentric”!! haha!! These are a couple of great guys.


hunty September 18, 2012 at 10:18 pm

Great stuff and greetings from NZ
I am making English style bellyboards (4ft x1 ft etc.) from marine ply although am keen to try other timbers as well.
What is your view on whether bellyboards should have nose kick??
Opinion seems to be divided.


Larry OB October 9, 2012 at 9:50 pm

Good question, and sorry for the delay. I think nose kick on longer boards can make it easier for beginners, but even an experienced rider can benefit from some nose kick when dropping straight down the face of a walled-out wave. So rider ability, wave conditions, swim fins, personal taste, board length, and board weight are all factors. That’s why it helps to minimize the middlemen between the shaper and the rider. That holds true for a lot of different types of custom surfcraft.

I think people should have a few boards with different kicks, rockers, lengths and widths. Beginners just need to practice the rockerless bellyboards in safe conditions, and not in crowded tublular shorebreak. I’ve noticed there’s a gent in Kent that makes bellyboards, and he sells them on Ebay. It’s what I would consider a high perfomance board, that beginners could learn to ride, but only on a calmer day.


Delta June 7, 2013 at 6:28 am

I love that cork deck idea!
How does it handle up to the abuse ?!
Does it feel good and hold up against the skin when it’s wet?


Larry OB August 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm

I haven’t really experimented with abuse. I wash the boards off with the garden hose when I get home. The cork will swell and get a little bumpy. That’s a good thing. It gives you something to tinker with. Typically I seal all of the cork with a drying oil, then varnish the cork near the rails with the same varnish used on the plywood bottom, and then I can sand away some of the sealed cork where I want it take on water (and get bumpy.) Yes, you can sand the cork with power sanders. I also use a router to rough shape the rails or make channels.


Paul "Grizbee" Knowles August 24, 2013 at 5:30 am

Cool stuff I love shaping paipo boards from a variety of wood too see my creations here.


Larry OB August 25, 2013 at 7:08 pm

Paul, your boards are totally BOSS. Do you ride them in the World Contest at St. Agnes?


Paul June 2, 2015 at 9:30 am

Can you tell me if there is a paipo meet at San Clemente State Beach this June Or July and the date.

PS what’s this 3 + blank = 12


Paul June 2, 2015 at 9:53 am

I am based in the UK so cant say what goes in SoCal. I will be in Oceanside and Huntington Beach with my paipo in September this year.
Good surfin
PS Don’t understand your PS Question


Delta June 2, 2015 at 2:56 pm

Well I finally made my own Cornwall body board “basically a wooden tombstone”
Went to try it on Lake Superior.
One of the Great Lakes of Michigan.
The thing is fast!
But I notice I don’t go very far before the board sinks underwater.
Then it dawned on me as to why.
I realized fresh water isn’t as buoyant as saltwater and I was only riding 2 to 3 foot waves at the time.
Am I correct at assuming this was the issue?



Larry OB June 4, 2015 at 10:21 pm

No, I don’t think the fresh water is stalling you. The difference in bouyancy is small, and easily offset with a wetsuit. I’m guessing one or two problems. Your board was too short and/or you were to far back on the board. Try adjusting your position forward and back on the board during the wave. Get a feel for how it changes your lift and glide. On the final stretch to shore, your head should be up as far as the nose of the board. Fear of pearling the nose underwater will cause bad riding position. I sometimes advise people to practice pearling wipeouts on small waves. I think it’s the best way to learn the tipping point.


Larry OB June 4, 2015 at 11:35 pm

On the final stretch to shore, your head should be up as far as the nose of the board.

Or close to the nose. It depends on the board and rider style. Some people like a Sphinx position with their hands just in front of their face. Some people prefer the Kilroy postion with their hands more even with their neck or chin.

Pressing down on the nose is another way to change your weight distribution without “tromboning” your position on the board.


rodndtube June 2, 2015 at 6:49 pm

You might need a wider planning area to provide more slide and volumetric lift.


Paul June 2, 2015 at 10:23 pm

This is common in sea water too. The thin wood used for these boards has very little floatation unless you make a hollow board. The fresh water also makes it harder for people to float so more drown in cold fresh water than the sea.
Solid wood paipo’s are best used for planning I jump into the wave at waist height. You can of course swim out with them and use the planning system of a late take of to get the board planning.
There are good videos on You Tube to give you an idea too.
Good Surfing


Delta June 3, 2015 at 2:51 am

I shall have to make a hollow board or make one out of paipo.
I just see these videos of people in Cornwall planning on their skinny boards all the way to the beach that’s why I was wondering if they knew something I didn’t



Larry OB June 4, 2015 at 10:34 pm

Readers might be confused by all the planning. The intended word is planing. Timing and position are important, but it can be mastered by people of all ages. Here’s some inspirational video with some old Jimmy Stewart in the soundtrack.


Paul June 5, 2015 at 1:27 am

Yes sorry typo error planing. Hey this is not that technical just get out in those waves and work it out for yourself.
People have been doing this for years just enjoy and get wet.
Good waves to all
Paul “Grizbee”


molemania June 9, 2015 at 12:03 pm

Larry OB – Awesome video!! Makes me feel like I am in the ocean even sitting here in Montana. Good job!


Frank Gormlie December 30, 2020 at 11:07 am

With all this interest in inflatable raft surfing, I wanted to bring this post up for some air.


Chris December 30, 2020 at 11:28 am



nostalgic December 30, 2020 at 3:18 pm

But where is Larry now? Has anybody heard from him? I wish him the best. He was a real OB presence.


Larry OB December 30, 2020 at 6:23 pm

I’ve been in Lucerne in Norther California for about seven years. I do plan to visit more often when travel is safer. I still have a nine foot Downing-Hennessy single fin that needs to return to OB as well. They shaped and glassed their boards in the back room of their surf shop at Sunset Cliffs and West Point Loma. A bygone era.

Plus I still have a lot of bellly boards, both vintage glass/foam and self-made wood boards. Mike Shourds makes kayaks these days….among other things. Maybe when the OB Historical Society restarts their public meetings, I’ll bring in the Downing Hennessy for show and tell.


Frank Gormlie December 31, 2020 at 9:29 am

Great to hear from you Larry! Your voice on OB histories has been missed. happy new year.


Terrie Leigh Relf December 30, 2020 at 7:16 pm

Thank you for reposting this, Frank! This brings me back to some fun times!


Frank Gormlie December 31, 2020 at 9:30 am

Great article, Terrie. We’ve reposted it numerous times. This moment seemed appropriate.


rodndtube December 30, 2020 at 7:33 pm

Hey Larry OB,

Good to hear from you and doing well up north in Lake Country. It also seems Mr. Mike is still kicking which is good to see. Aloha to everyone.


Larry OB December 30, 2020 at 9:47 pm

For more info….much more info, go to Rod’s Paipo Forum.

It could change your life. For sure.


Terrie Leigh Relf December 30, 2020 at 11:40 pm

Great to hear that you’re all good, Larry!

Here’s to seeing you when you visit!


Larry OB December 31, 2020 at 3:02 pm

Hi Terrie.


Richard December 31, 2020 at 8:22 am

I’ve been body boarding OB and the cliffs regularly for 35 years. Never ever seen this dude. Interesting article, Where exactly in OB/Cliffs surf breaks will I find you Mike?


Larry OB December 31, 2020 at 3:01 pm

Mike grew up on Coronado Island, so he’s usually there or the Silver Strand State Beach. Sometimes we’d go to No Surf beach or South OB. I preferred the swimmer side of the Cape May Jetty, but always yielded to the serious bodysurfers if they were in the water. I lived on Cape May for many years, so it was an easy walk or bike ride to the beach.

We cajoled Terrie the writer into riding a wooden paipo on Coronado West of the Hotel del Coronado. She did just fine. I think swim fins were also part of her learning curve. We were the only ones in the water, so we didn’t have to worry about loose boards. Normally beginning bellyboarders should probably learn to bodysurf first, and be comfortable wearing swim fins.


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