Leaflet of intolerance passed out on streets of Ocean Beach, late February 2010.
For the past week, we’ve heard about the racism up at UCSD with the “Compton Cookout” and a student TV show. Now, we have intolerance against the homeless in Ocean Beach , a community widely known for its tolerance.
Fliers being handed out over the last several days in OB have called for the eviction of homeless youth from the community. Calling for “Trolls out of OB”, these fliers have been handed out by unknown persons to homeless travelers and other people down at the foot of Newport Avenue.
This blatant display of intolerance comes on the eve of a public forum on homelessness called by the OB Town Council. This forum will be held on Wednesday, February 24th at the Masonic Temple on Sunset Cliffs.
The leaflets themselves proudly call into question one of the widely known traits of the seaside hamlet, its toleration for different lifestyles.
For the past several weeks, local media have raised the issue of OB’s homeless youth. With business leaders complaining of aggressive panhandling, other residents complaining of public displays of drug use and sexual behavior – the issue of the homeless has become central in much of the community’s eye.
Yet, other residents assert that they are not bothered by homeless and cite the rise of the harassment of the homeless by police. Older residents remember that the issue of OB’s youth comes around every so often, and that merchants and residents have complained about the street people, the transients, the young and restless since the late sixties.
Meanwhile, there is a growing recognition in the community that there are no mysteries why traveling young people stop off at OB. Especially in the midst of the greatest economic down-turn since the Great Depression. And, there are no government services for the homeless in OB.
Now, a handful of supposed “locals” have called for the removal of homeless people – naming them after a sub-human mythical creature. And in doing so, a few people have soiled the reputation of this great community. In coming down on the soiling of the neighborhood by some homeless people, the messengers of intolerance soil themselves and their neighbors with their prejudice, indifference, and lack of human compassion.
The “locs only” message of the fliers mirrors similar attitudes among elitist surfers, who have recently even gone to the extent of posting signs at surfing spots along Sunset Cliffs that declare “Locs Only” – signs and attitude that begot ridicule and derision – and were torn down.
The leaflets of prejudice have no return address, no signature, no contact information. This cowardly display of the writers’ own lack of righteous confidence is overshadowed by the “clip art” style of the fliers themselves – meant to project a “hip-ness” and cultural coolness.
These fliers have stained the community. This open display of intolerance against the homeless needs to be answered by the rest of the community. Just as the racism up at UCSD needs to be answered by the college community, this prejudice on our local streets needs to be addressed by those willing to reassert the reputation of Ocean Beach.
The Town Council public forum on the homeless will be held at the Masonic Temple, located at 1711 Sunset Cliffs Boulevard. However, that portion of the Council’s agenda, is after reports and a OB Planning Board candidates forum. The OBTC meeting begins at 7pm. See our earlier post here.
{ 79 comments… read them below or add one }
these must be the same “locals” who decide who gets to surf where.
Sorry, but you’re talking apples and oranges. To even get surfers to put together something like that flyer, would be like herding cats. When surfers talk about “locals only” it ends on land.
Do you not recall the sign(s) put up by somebody awhile ago along Sunset Cliffs? Do you deny that the locs only attitude is out on the water as well? Or are you talking about surfers putting together the leaflet? Never said that, I said it “mirrors” what some surfers did. Sorry, have some more coffee, the revolutionary drink, my brother.
OB has always had its pockets of intolerance, whether its actual Klan members in white sheets, bikers, posse comitatis members, hippie-hating rightwing merchants and former town council people from the early seventies, this serves to remind us that not all is in harmony n our little beach resort.
I agree Molly, and none of them have ever been good at making fliers. What a POS!
Jon- That is the worst fucking flier ever. Holy shit. When they “cut and paste” they are actually cutting with scissors and using paste. It looked like a ransom note. When the un-evolved try to get their point across it is always hilarious if you look for the funny. I bet the person or persons who made the flier types USING ALL CAPS when they get frustrated. I bet they were so proud and have it on their refrigerator right now under a Sarah Palin magnet.
Too many people are too quick in making judgments of others, especially other human beings they do not know, care to know, understand, or care to understand. We, as part of a community of tolerance, need to find positive ways to reach out to those who need us the most. Hopefully, the OBTC will be able to lead the community in these efforts.
Keep this in mind: Sometimes God has a child’s face.
Sorry Linda (whose comment was deleted) your intolerance is showing and this blog will not be a site for such gross lack of human compassion. And your “peace out” ending is particularly grating.
There’s another parallel with UCSD: today there’s a “teach-in” on racial sensitivity up at the campus, and tonight in OB there is a public forum on the homeless.
C’mon Frank, Lets have the trolls reach beyond the parapet so we can chop ‘m…
“All Quiet on the Western Front”-D.
Danny, I finally saw the 1979 version of that classic, anti-war movie. In the last scene, the protagonist raises himself up just a bit out of the trench in order to draw a bird, when he is shot.
Frank,- Check out the 1930 (British) version w/Lew Ares(?). Classic anti-war flick that was banned for a long time in England even…
Just for the record Frank, not surprised you deleted my comment-good god lets not show both sides of the argument, and as for my “gross lack of human compassion” LOL-obviously, you know NOTHING about me or what I do for a living.
Linda- “Why we should be okay with the Likes of You?-Peace out my dying ass! The Likes of You have no reason or purpose in their existence let alone peace. The Likes of You have a life that is “nothing more than something they invest in”-Yes, we can compare the Likes of You to others under the categories: Intolerant, Self-Centered, Self-Serving, Discontented and Derisive. – Yes, we can compare the Likes of You to those of us who act out their inner soul sickness, those who project their benighted dark side onto their brothers and sisters “under god we trust.” Remember my children, acceptance and tolerance is not approval. Repent, The Time Is Nigh…”-T. Bagger
We have been running all kinds of different sides of the argument, but when you debased yourself by calling others derogatory names, and only projected hate, we have to say ‘bye-bye.’ You condemned an entire group for the transgressions of a few.
BTW, did you put out the leaflets?
Okay, so I’m an evil cold hearted bitch-got it LOL.
The problem is, many of you are confusing ‘homeless’ with ‘trolls’. IF you knew me, you’d know I have no problem with the homeless in OB. Those truly without a HOME have my compassion. Those who have a cell phone from their parents and a plush home waiting for them in OC, who prefer to live in the streets or along the cliffs while disrupting OUR lives via social irresponsibilty are the issue….my selfish, self-centered egotistical self spends a great-deal of my time picking up the garbage left behind by ‘the innocent street kids’….maybe if my neighbors and I stop doing this you’d understand a FRACTION of our frustrations?
But I’m sure I’m wasting my breath here because I have a different opinion than you guys.
Many different opinions have been expressed here. We just don’t like those opinions spiced with hate.
As you know from my email, Frank, this woman Linda is not the “only one” with another opinion on this subject. For all those who “support” the homeless, why don’t you get together and form a group to go around every day and clean up after them, deal with all the problems they cause. And to compare this “intolerance” with racism is simply ridiculous. The classic problem with so-called “progressives” is a lack of back bone. It’s showing here. But you get all warm and fuzzy inside when you speak up to “support” alcoholisim, hard drug use, and all the other prolems that come with the “residentially challenged.” You are “enablers” of the people who chpose to cause these problems and, for the most part, could care less about OB as a community.
-Terry
terry – the problem with your statement is a generalization. Nobody is supporting hard drug use, but rather explaining that it won’t just go away with the “solutions” in place now (which are nonexistent). Dialogue is essential here, and it is important that everyone’s voice is heard…..without saying that someone doesn’t have a “back bone”. As for me, I’ll be getting up tonight in public and stating my opinion in a forum where I am unsure of how I will be received. That requires chutzpah friend.
Of course everyone is entitled to a personal view, and on top of that, some of what you say is a valid point of view that should be discussed. I am part of a citizens committee right here in OB that will be represented tonight by three speakers at the OBTC meeting, and much of our suggestion is going to be to ask all stakeholders – residents, merchants, police, political leadership, social service providers, and the houseless – to take responsibility and finally stop brushing the issue aside. Having compassion may be MY thing, but it doesn’t have to be your thing. Nonetheless we can find common ground in tangible solutions, rather than being divided while the OB houseless population’s situation doesn’t really change (as it hasnt changed for 40 years) and the discord in our community grows.
As you know, Terry, you and I go back a long way. As a progressive, I have compassion for my fellow humans, but have never spoken up to support alcoholism, nor hard drug use. I try to understand why people are the way they are. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand why young people and homeless come to OB. There are many, many problems with this community, and the homeless only cause a fraction, but they seem to get all our attention.
What about the greedy landlords who raise rents so high that they force out long-time mom and pop stores on Newport? What about the pattern and trends of gentrification that are changing the face of Ocean Beach? What about over-zealous cops who harass and abuse their power? (Yes, Terry, there are good cops – I’ve known quite a few – and some of them are more tolerant than you are.)
As I call myself a progressive (without quotation marks) I take great offense of you calling me “spineless” – as it is progressives who are, for instance, organizing a counter-demonstration against this weekend’s Tea Bagger rally – which you have agreed to join. I guess it’s okay to join weak progressives on one issue, but to put down progressives on other issues.
Obviously, there are different sides to the homeless issue. But to generalize, like you and Linda, and the folks who put out the fliers, and blame all homeless for the dirt of a few, is to enable hate and prejudice. At least we at the OB Rag, an obvious spineless organization, are trying to do something about it. And obviously we care nothing for this community. You’re so right.
I didn’t reply you in a timely manner because I’ve been buried in work. What I said what not a personal attack on you or the others who made similar replies. I maintain that trying to relate my “intolerance” of homeless with racisim and then claim my “problem” is that I generalize is pretty fuzzy thinking. I’m not really “intolerent” of homeless, but rather the many problems they cause. They choose the life the lead. The flyer was simply stupid, but obviously a product of the frustration that some “non-homeless” feel when hearing people talk about them like they’re some kind of local folk heros. Not every single one, but the vast majority are homeless because they are too weak and unmotivated to deal with their personal problems (mainly substance abuse and laziness) which lead to homelessness. And people who fail to recognize this and give them handouts are simply “enablers.” I recognize there are those who are homeless for reasons out of their control. But there are shelters and programs for those who truly want to improve their lot. It’s not easy, bit it’s possible. And, yes, I will join you, a progressive, on issues where we agree. Where we don’t, I won’t. It’s not an “all or nothing.” We’re not going to “solve” the homeless issue, because only each one of them can do that for themselves. In the meantime, I will remain “intolerant” of them using my neighborhood for a bathroom, stealing anything that is not locked up (yes, I said it because it’s true), dumping trash all over the ground when digging for recyclables and all the other problems which need not be cataloged here. The people I said that don’t care about the community are the ones causing these problems, not those who, in good faith, try to do something about it. Lastly, maybe you need to re-read the last couple of sentences of your reply. Never knew you to be so self-righteous
… and I never knew you to be so intolerant.
We first met over 35 years ago. I disagree with your characterization of me, and I think you know better. This is an issue in which reasonable, good intentioned people can disagree. Your intolerance is of all those who disagree with your viewpoint, which I seriously doubt is shared by the majority of those of us who actually live here. Didn’t use to be like that. By the way, there is one homeless guy who I know actually contributes to the community. He walks around Newport with a cart and sweeps and picks up trash for “tips.” I always “tip” him because he is trying to improve/support himself. He is the exception.
Terry, can’t family members quarrel? That’s all this is.
Never thot it was more. That’s why I can be completely candid. I look at you as a brother. So if you were here I’d probably try and smack ya! Then we’d smoke one (or two, or three) and have a beer. Several, in fact.
Terry- Have you ever lived next to college kids. The weekend parties that their parents ultimately pay for leave bottles and cans everywhere. I have seen drunk kids coming home from bars breaking fence posts, breaking limbs off trees. They get drunk and drive their BMWs and get DUIs that risk the lives of everyone. They piss in yards and have sexual encounters in public. I once saw someone confront some of these drunk college kids vandalizing a car. The college kids kicked the shit out of them.
Walk around O.B. sometime on a Sunday morning before the homeless come by and clean up the cans and bottles for the college kids. It’s a mess.
If you seriously want to clean up Ocean Beach then don’t waste your time with the easy target. Lets do something really good and kick out anyone 18-25 that is in college.
Too bad there’s not a draft anymore…it’d be really easy to get them drunk, and you’d have plenty of time to Shanghai them before they wake up from their stupor…
Such as that trashy place by Pomas that always throws cans of PBR all over their yard. Seriously how hard is it to put them in a plastic bag!
They’re just looking out for the environment…
When I walk past that house on a Sunday afternoon I feel such disgust that I can’t even find words for how I feel.
It’s like the view of America you’d get if you only saw Bourbon Street. I’ve thought about filming them and somehow sending the footage to their parents.
Frank- NO, I had nothing to do with the leaflets. Believe it or not, I’m not the only one on “this” side of the argument.
I think its important to realize that even though some folks lack compassion and are incapable of asserting their thoughts in a way that doesn’t offend, there are numerous sides to this issue. Obviously this flier is over the top and incongruous with the soul of OB; what cant be ignored is that someone actually took the time to make this and distribute it.
Working towards channeling that energy towards tangible efforts as a community is the only way to find common ground and explore realistic solutions.
As Lane would say…^bump.
It think its funny that someone took so much time to make those fliers. There are different levels of homeless. With some having more choice in the matter then others. While feel compassion for older people who have lost control of there life and being homeless is a result of mistakes or mental illness. But for this younger crowd of able bodied youth, I say GET IT TOGETHER!
I gave a copy of my poem to a few of those evil hippies, the were all literate and enjoyed the read. Hope some in here do.
OUT DAMN KIDS
A POEM BY
OLD HERMIT DAVE
2/15/2010
This campaign by SD’s finest might just be
Clean out those young transients from O/B
When complete if were lucky perhaps all might see
Many men an women in blue, where kids used to be
Armed with guns an mace they sit on the sidewalk
Wrapping tightly the palm fronds, they try to hawk
All that blue sitting on the sea wall, blends with sea an sky
Those cops with their bongo drums, making real rhythm cry
Then placed around town not just one lone cop
Strumming guitars, no on dare tell them STOP
Then for those lucky people in HODADS long line
Dread locked undercover cops, do street pantomime
Now for street parking, for OB’s great bars
The red zones will be full of shiny cop cars
With all transients now gone, oh what then will we do
Attract thousands of tourists, who love the color BLUE
The people who handed out the fliers have the same rights as any person to voice their opinion. People have handed out fliers for different political views for years. Most offended someone. I don’t like their opinion or agree with it at all. I know two things about the person or persons who made it.
1. They could really use a hug and a joint.
2. They need to learn photoshop.
Those with young children should worry about Karma as they judge and harass other people’s children. Someday you may have a kid that drops out and the only way to talk to them is on a cell phone that you purchase. Your child may need the communities tolerance next.
Here is my problem with the difference between trolls and homeless. Why does it matter if they are old homeless or cell phone carrying kids with rich parents who want to drop out for a while?
People have the right to live how they want. If that involves violence or crime they will eventually be out of society and have a prison to call home.
Below is something we often forget while building our glass houses.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”- Something I once read.
Hey, could I get a hug and joint, too? LOL
Why be specific about calling out people with young children as the ones who judge and harass. Got any evidence to support this position?
Not all homeless are trolls – not by a long shot. Whoever designed this flyer doesn’t understand the concept of a troll – did Camper call them ‘schwillys’ or something similar in his post a little while back?
Dialectical Materialism-That method of arriving at the Truth through direct observation of human behavior in a political economy…doesn’t rely upon opinions, doesn’t “take sides” and doesn’t try to enforce it’s will upon others. The phenomena of struggle (dialectic) between contending classes is the prime mover of human (global & local) history. Individuals have the freedom to align themselves with one class(Hypothesis) or another (Antithesis) with the result (Synthesis) being progress or the mutual ruination of all. Good luck Ya’ll, See you tonight – Martin Neimoller
I hear the Beacon is doing a follow up article on the travlers…it might lend insight.
Ok…..can anyone really validate these fliers were posted or handed out? They didn’t just magically appear in OB….someone, somewhere, sometime, had to have witnessed these being distributed.
Sounds woefully sensational and conveniently timed with the Town Council forum and anti-racism Teach In at UCSD today……
Honestly, why bother with the font chopping style of flier…..nobody can track fonts like an old style typwriter anymore. And who has this kind of time….nobody out trying to earn an honest living certainly and pay taxes to the hamlet.
This stinks of a conspiracy to sensationalize….How many hits ya got today Frank?????
J’Accuse!
I hope, Lisa, this is your attempt at humor.
Shame, shame, shame on you Lisanob. Is this really the best you can do when you disagree with someone? I personally don’t think that Frank should have even posted your remark. How about if I say that “me thinks the lady protests too much” and that YOU are obviously the perp? Take a chill pill, apologize like a decent human being, and start again.
I’m just a regular poster to this blog with an opinion that often defies the group here-to-fore known as “the people with authorship on the right hand side of the webpage” who are obviously selling ad-space and driving traffic to their sight with sensationalized reporting. Its clear that if you disagree with any of the authors or with anyone who has their name on the right hand column that ALL of you run in and “stomp” us “dissenters” out. Maybe you should RE-read the article by Finnegan posted a while back.
Free Speech comes with the unfortunate consequence that OTHERS may not agree with your position.
I want to know as much as anyone seeing as how the whole community may have been “pranked” at UCSD last week. Seems to be the theme of the month for whatever reason.
If the fliers are valid….we should know what group is doing it….and YES…we have a misunderstanding in our community on the issue. If NO…..then it is a prank and it should be ignored. Either way….I think that a previous poster was correct….this might be covered by free speech. Pending the Supreme Court’s ruling on the T word.
For the record….I haven’t taken a stance on the issue….because I don’t even know if we have a issue.
Let’s get some facts out there “reporters” instead of just churning up the community.
“J’accuse” is “just wondering?” Give me a break. Very bad Lisa.
the issue is alive and well and stretches far beyond the readership of the OB Rag. The person who submitted the flier shouldn’t have to come out and publicly announce it since it was distributed in public. Get out on the street and ask a few people. Someone was bound to have seen it last weekend.
In regard to people disagreeing and having their opinions “stomped” on, I think you are only reading comments directed at YOU. Pretty much everywhere else on this blog, there are legitimate discussions going on that involve multiple points of view. There seems to be something incindiary in your presence that pisses other people off. Sorry to state the obvious.
The Peninsula Beacon has just published an excellent article on OB’s homeless youth by Kevin McKay.
Everybody think whites are the only ones who are racist?
bzzzzzzzzt, wrong answer, they’ve just been better at institutionalizing it globally in the last couple of hundred years.
Metinks da numbers speak for themselves.
UCSD enrollment by ethnicity
I think I made a similar comment in the UCSD article section…
Using obvious differences to sow disunity amongst the people is as old as history itself. [Part I] When Moses unified the landless, unskilled workers (hi’biru) and codified their laws, the reign of the Pharoes was soon (in historical terms) kaput! [Part II] When the merchant capitalists of the New World stood independent of fuedal society the divine right of kings bought (in historical terms) the farm. [Part III] Industrial society uses this “Super Exploitation” as an additional weapon in it’s class war arsenal against the working class. What we’re witnessing on the Rag is a phenomena that is sometimes hidden sometimes open but is played out whenever, by whoever and where ever we have dominant-class society. We live in a microcosm of the bigger picture. Chose your sides wisely and come out fighting.- E.A. Wallis Budge
chuckle, chuckle
me like history.
Any use of the derogatory term “troll”, unless applied to those who intentionally say spiteful comments on blogs only to incite other readers, will not be posted.
I am sure this will not be the popular opinion on this website but I feel I need to express some sort of opinion to balance out the “let-everyone-do-anything-they-want” vibe I am getting from the author of this article as well as a number of his supporters. Allow me to preface this opinion with some facts about myself:
· I am an OB local, I was born at Kaiser and OB was the first place I lived and will be my home til I die.
· I know Reggie and a number of other “homeless” gentlemen and I am proud to count them amongst my friends.
· I do not live on the hill, I am down in the war-zone and I like it there.
· I make less than 40k per year and live in a very small apt with my girlfriend.
· I am not college educated and am over 30.
And to my point: The people we are talking about here are the young crowd that has chosen OB as a stop off point for some sort of cross-country drug-binge road trip, they are rude, violent and inconsiderate. Often times when I have encountered them they are drunk or drugged out to the point where they no longer make sense in there attempts to persuade me to give them some of my hard earned money. I have broken up, no less than, 3 fights where these “transient youths” were involved. I have heard plenty of stories from the “homeless” guys that are locals that these kids are causing huge problems for them.
I cannot agree to kicking out every single person without a home to sleep in at night because that would include “homeless” people that I consider a part of OB and that would detract from OB’s eclectic vibe, but OB is MY home, not theirs. I am going to protect MY home, all the shops are part of MY home, all the restaurants are part of MY home, and all the people are part of MY home, and if some one was in your home doing damage and making you uncomfortable I am willing to bet you would call the cops and hand out some flyers, at a minimum.
And more to the point: I am afraid to walk down the streets at night, I know plenty of young women who get nasty comments from these “transient youth” on a nightly basis, I will not let my girlfriend walk to the store by herself for fear of her getting harassed by some 22 year old punk that has nothing to lose cause he’s living on our streets and wants to get picked up so he can spend the night in the drunk tank.
I am not promoting any kind of hatred here, I am a very tolerant person and I try to be the guy that finds a peaceful way to solve problems but the “transient youth” issue is definitely a problem and sitting up on the hill and talking about how we are prejudice, indifferent, and lack human compassion is not going to help to solve this issue, it will however polarize our community into “us and them” which is never a good place, from which, to effect change. We are a community, and as such, we have the right to determine when some phenomenon is a detriment to our lives and to effect non-violent but swift change. I am all for doing something about these “transient youths” and I am proud that the “supposed locals” as the author put it, have tried to do something without breaking any laws. Yeah its “intolerant” but tolerance is stupid when it puts you or yours in danger, and I do feel that these kids are dangerous.
Thanks for reading and I am glad I found this Site. Very cool!
In all of my years in OB as a young woman (29 years old now, with over 10 of the last years in OB) – I have NEVER been harassed or felt threatened by the hippie young homeless folk. I HAVE been harassed by any number of preppie-looking college-age kids who assume I would enjoy their sexual suggestions after they’ve left bars at closing time…. And yet no one is worried about those kids coming to OB, drinking to capacity in our bars, then terrorizing people who live here, in OUR hometown. Not to mention the drunk-driving issues…. As far as aggro homeless folks, the only ones I’ve known to seem threatening are the older, likely mentally-disturbed homeless. Those guys need help, and yet as a city/county/state/country we refuse to give it to them.
I am just SICK and tired of everyone trying to blame a group of people for the actions of a few. The judgmental OBceans who think the world revolves around them would do well to look at themselves, at their neighbors, at the non-OB friends that they invite into town, and assess what THOSE people are doing to our community.
For example, yesterday I saw a couple, looked very hippie-like, probably home-free or living out of an RV… anyway, they were walking their dog. The dog did his business, and they busted out bags that they’d carried with them to pick up the waste. On the other hand, about a day earlier, my boyfriend saw some schmuck let his dog do his thing on someone else’s lawn, then walked away leaving a nice surprise for the residents of that house. My boyfriend followed him, and sure enough, the dude lives in OB. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s one of the people hypocritically railing against the homeless. It’s a lot easier to blame anyone but yourself for the failings of society – “I’ve got a job, I pay rent, so my dog can shit anywhere he wants! At least I’m not one of those ‘homeless trolls,’ hahahahaha.”
I guess my point is… if there are true problems of people breaking laws, let the proper authorities deal with them. If you don’t like hippies hanging out in your community (which they’ve been doing for decades – check your OB history, folks), then move somewhere else. The town has been the same before you, and will, god willing, be the same after you. And don’t assume that the dog shit you step on in the morning is from a lazy homeless youth. It’s likely from your neighbor’s dog.
Kristin, At no point did I say that the “preppie-looking college-age kids” were not a problem, but as a community of business owners and restaurants we have to take the good with the bad. If the primary business in OB is going to be bars we cannot tell people not to get drunk and act like assholes, however, the rudeness of this crowd is offset by the money they pour into our businesses, if the same could be said about the transient kids we are talking about I would have no complaint.
As to your third paragraph, yes people are douchebags, the guy who let his dog crap on someone’s lawn was just as screwed up as your boyfriend for putting the effort into following this guy to his house but not making the effort to pick up the crap himself. This doesnt change the fact that we try to minimize the amount of douchebaggery we allow by taking peaceful action, perhaps your boyfriend could have picked up the poop for the guy and returned it to his mailbox or his car.
I have no problem with “hippies”, as a matter of fact I have no problem with these young people at all, if all they wanted to do was hang out and have drum circles I would not mind them in any way, but they are rude, inconsiderate, demanding and violent, and this will not be tolerated, even in the most tolerant of societies. I, however, do not have the time to teach them manners and so I just want them to move on.
My opinion is not based on the fact that I believe the world revolves around me, my opinion is simply based on concern for my community, if at the city coucil meeting it was determined that we would open up a shelter in the parking lot behind South Beach, then so be it, I will volunteer to help build it, but I can almost guarentee that the solution will either be to ignore the problem or to involve the police in a more active role. In which case this entire discussion about the horrible flyers was moot and only served to inflame a group of people to rail agaisnt each other and do nothing about the issue, however, I am wrong at least 3 times a day, so maybe this is one of them.
Does any one know the outcome of the meeting last night?
there are two posts up right now on the ob rag discussing the meeting.
Thank you sir.
Ian, I don’t think I understand your reasoning. We are a “community of business-owners and restaurants”? What about all of the rest of us who live here and support these businesses and restaurants? I am an avid supporter of my local businesses, but it’s not all about them. The residents (permanent AND transient) matter too. And if you’re willing to put up with predatory behavior from drunk college kids just because they give some money to our bars, you’ve got MAJOR issues. I think the business owners would not be pleased to know that violent, angry, NON-homeless kids are partying in our town and terrorizing locals. Because as a long-time local, those are the ONLY people that have scared the shit out of me. On many occasions. But if you think the money they spend gives them some kind of pass to be violent and anti-social and sexually threatening, again, you’ve got issues, buddy.
One of the points I’ve been trying to make is that NO ONE should be exempt from the laws of the city, county, and state. If a rich college kid is starting a fight or attempting to rape someone, they need to be busted. Same thing if it’s a “wall kid.” But if those same segments of society are not breaking laws, LEAVE THEM ALONE! It’s not up to you to judge and manage and control other people.
As to my boyfriend not picking up the dude’s dog shit – well, we don’t have dogs. Hence, when we’re walking thru the community, we don’t carry dog-poop bags with us. It’s silly to think that HE should have been the one to carry dog-poop bags as a non-dog-owner just to take care of the dicks who refuse to take responsibility for their animals. He followed the guy because he also is active on this site, and we’ve been discussing the accusations that the transients are the ones responsible for the litter, dog poop, etc. He confirmed his suspicion that this was a LOCAL, and not a transient who was literally shitting up our neighborhood. And for the record, both my boyfriend and I are very active in OB cleanup efforts that come up every month or so.
Maybe this was one of the 3 times a day you’re wrong. Maybe not.
I have to chime in on this one! This reply is a bit late in the game but I feel quite strongly about this crappy issue.(hehe). I live in the War Zone.Have for 11 years. I have picked up dog crap left on our lawn.I don’t really enjoy doing it.I have,on numerous occasions,picked up human crap from the same lawn.And from our garbage area.I don’t think it is OB locals taking craps behind dumpsters.Anyone who feels the homeless population doesn’t do stuff like this cn come on over with their scooper and help).Or come on down to the grass by tower 2 at 6 am and help me pick up the trash all over the place. When I see homeless people with dogs it makes me sad.Perhaps they do pick up after them, but if you can’t take care of yourself why would you have a dog? I’ve said me peace.Oh yeah, the “I’m more tolerant than you” arguments are ridiculous.
Ian – I think in some way or another, your point of view is one of the more prevalent ones in OB. I too live in “the war zone” but on the contrary, I never feel unsafe. Maybe it is because I am used to a more crime filled environment after living in other places, and OB to me is a safe haven. I can’t determine your level of safety, however, and as such you are entitled to demand respect from the people in your neighborhood.
HOWEVER, your thoughts of some group of snarky, wealthy liberals “sitting up on the hill” is distorted . It offends me as I am a working class 20something, live in a small one bedroom apartment just like you, but feel very differently about this issue than you. I can judge intolerance, and I can find realistic similarities in our differences. The flyer is intolerant; feeling threatened and demanding better from fellow OBecians is a feeling we share.
What I will be advocating tonight at the meeting is to collaborate as a community to find a solution to this. There are a number of labels that need to be checked at the door in doing so, and it will be up to everyone to do it. I may be overly compassionate about this, but it is because I am more aware than most of the lack of help out there for people who really need it due to my day job. I can also understand a point of view that is less compassionate and as such, I would expect the same understanding from those who disagree with me.
If we cant do that, then nothing will change and this debate will continue on for another 40 years.
Lane, sorry about the “up on the hill” comment, not trying to offend anyone, however in response to your third paragraph; I am not willing to sacrifice my comfort or safety to help these people, assuming they want to be helped.
You don’t have to wait for some young woman to get attacked to recognize the inherent danger in dozens of 20-somethings with no jobs and nothing to lose drinking and doing drugs on our streets.
I am all for being compassionate but there is a limit.
Your apology is notable because most people make blanket statements and dont care whether or not its true. Clearly, youre not like that.
The goal is not to divide, but to find some understanding in disagreement and use that common ground to find a solution.
All I can say is: if a homeless kid isn’t tolerated or welcomed in OB, where in the world would that young person feel comfortable? Homelessness is a problem in and of itself; it doesn’t need any other layers to it. There must be a solution of some kind that would work.
They could come live at your place Ernie. If you care that much.
And what have I said that warrants such a snide comment from you, Ian, about people coming to live at my house, “if I care that much?” Look, man, don’t f–k with me. All I’m trying to say is I think that OB, based on my 48 years of living in San Diego, can come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. I hear your concerns loud and clear as my wife and I actually put up a family of homeless people once. I found out from that personal experience just what my “limit” is when it comes to offering help. It’s a serious problem especially with so many kids out on the street and if you don’t want to try to solve the problem why mess with people who are trying to come up with answers?
StandUp For Kids, the largest national organization for homeless and street kids has been working with the street kids in OB for many years. They cannot do it alone. They need your help. If you would like to volunteer to help them, contact them at http://www.standupforkids.org
We try hard to find worthy organizations to donate too – and we researched this organization for years, unfortunately most of the funding raised by these volunteers in cities across the US go to help pay for the CEO travel/stipend expenses – that is if he’s not allowing it to be stolen – as in the case of a 300k theft a few years ago. This organization also mainly hands out food and supplies so these kids can remain on the streets and are not “pushed” to better themselves. It’s mainly an organization that allows its volunteers to feel good that they’ve done something noble. Homeless people need shelters – safe beds, job skills, and a willingness to help themselves not hand outs. Leaving a youth on the street with a food pack only allows them to stay on the streets longer and make more unwise decisions. By the way it’s also not the largest organization of its kind. They just say that to give them credibility. They say they have over 43 programs (currently) yet there is no program in Berkeley/Oakland, Long Beach, Redlands, Riverside, or San Bernardino – and that’s just for California. Other locations we can not find any evidence of existing is The Florida Keys, Peoria, Springfield, Twin Cities, Camden, Portland, Pittsburgh, Tijuana, and many other locations that constantly seem to be “starting”!
Just an attempt to state some facts so that those of you that do decide to do more than just talk about the issue can hopefully make wise decisions on who to volunteer with.
I think it’s not just black and white – or should I say hate and tolerance. I live on the beach and am a VERY tolerant and giving person. That does not mean I should have to put up with having my belonging stolen if left outside, drug deals constantly going on in my front yard, being asked several times a day for money and many times feeling unsafe at night. There is a connection to these things and the homeless population. Undoubtedly it is not solely their doing. But instead of just preaching about getting them out of OB – (which I most definitely want to do!) Let’s discuss some positive solutions for both sides! Bringing the homeless and homeless teens to resource centers that can help them. Which OB has none of!
And please – just because I want the homeless out of OB does not mean I am intolerant! Try living with them yourself and you will most definitely change your mind! I feel for them – and would be all for helping them – but am not willing to put my safety at risk by ignoring this problem!
Why don’t we just get rid of everyone that scares us? It’s them that is the problem right. The problem isn’t the fear of fellow humans that we have been programmed to feel. Lock your fucking doors and close your windows. The homeless youths are your biggest concern. Be afraid. Once their gone you are next. It’s crazy what happens to rental rates after gentrification starts. If you make under $50,000 a year you will be moving soon. They have convinced you and your neighbors that your home and neighborhood is not safe. Lock your doors and call U-Haul it’s time to leave. Boo!
well said obsteven….disaster capitalism a la danny morales….
Sorry, Steve, who are the “they” you are talking about in “They have convinced you and your neighbors that your home and neighborhood is not safe”?
I am not being convinced by anyone that these people are dangerous, this is my own experience I am basing my bias upon. I am not talking about discriminating against anyone based on prejudice, I am talking about protecting my community from a potentially dangerous and definitly negative influence that I have witnessed and have personal experience with.
You can exagerate the point in order to make it seem ridiculous but its not moving the disscussion forward in any productive way. If these people dont cause you any strife in any way then at least respect the cares and opinions of the people you share the community with and default to their level of tolerance on this issue.
Although there is no established purpose for projection of the dark side onto other the mechanism of it is quite clear. Psychological projection allows the undeveloped ego to maintain a sense of well being when confronted with new or unintelligible information. Only when the ego drops this defense mechanism in all (Shadow, Anima/Animus projection) cases does a door open up for legitimate spiritual growth and actuation of the Self-(w/apologies to Carl Jung)
Ian – I respect your opinion, and from our discussion on here it sounds like we’re neighbors with mutual interest. Id be interested in grabbing a cup of coffee or a beer and talking about this in person….many times, keyboards dont emphasize the right things.
If thats something you would be interested in, contact the OB Rag blog and they can give you my email address or they can pass yours onto me. Its probably a lot more conducive to have this discussion in person, out in the community.
Really – “default to THEIR level of tolerance”? Why on earth should that have to happen? You said yourself up there in the posts that you think it’s OK that young drunks are coming into our town and causing problems, because they’re giving money to the local businesses. Why don’t YOU respect the cares and opinions of the people in the community that have an issue with THAT group of people?
I’ll say it again, and probably not for the last time – if there are crimes being committed – call the cops. They will take appropriate legal action. If you just don’t like being asked for your spare change – DEAL with it or move. It’s not illegal, and it’s not hurting anyone. If any of these transients that you vilify are seriously criminals – you need to be communicating with the police, and not with the OB Rag.
FYI, for those who feel that the Compton Cookout issue and ensuing racial disharmony is not an issue of hate, but rather expressions of free speech….a noose was hung in a UCSD library today. Theres no free speech involved in this. A noose is meant to terrorize and is the most offensive symbol of hate….., a noose is used to hang someone. Not to have a discussion on free speech.
Absolutely horrible.
I remember reading this thread a long time ago before many of the comments had appeared. I knew back then who made those posters, or who had come off as having produced them.
Why I did not comment back then back-fired today. This morning I removed a letter-size poster collaged with the same ransom-note style with strange imagery. Donna Frye was in there as was (someone please tell me I am wrong…) Benito Mussolini.
For the record, I strongly oppose violence inciting and support the recent inclusion of homelessness in a hate crime bill.
I removed the poster from a wall outside an establishment where I work. I wanted to look at it more and verify that the picture was that of Mussolini’s. I folded it up and put it together with another piece of paper (with my name and eye prescription on it). The papers and the objectional poster was in a paper box with some contact lens supplies.
I lost it somewhere and if found, the wrong conclusion in which I’m the originator can be drawn. If the center imagery was indeed Mussolini, I would go on and post my findings.
Now I have to. And I will analyze the security camera footage to confirm my suspicions. Inciting animosity is reckless, inclusion of fascist imagery (if it indeed was Mussolini) is more serious.
I found what I had lost. The man on the poster was not Benito Mussolini, it was George Patton.
In any event, I deem this new poster to be hateful. I am going to provide the copy to the OB Rag.
mitokid – Please do so. Are you able to scan it and send via email to obragblog@gmail.com or are you mailing us a hard copy at OB Rag, PO Box 7012, San Diego, CA 92167
We appreciate it.