50 Years of the Big Lie – the Cover-Up of the JFK Assassination – Part 2

by on November 22, 2013 · 41 comments

in American Empire, Civil Rights, Culture, History, Media, Military, Ocean Beach, Politics, San Diego, War and Peace, World News

JFK assass colorcropHere’s Part 1.

By Frank Gormlie

It’s finally here, Friday, November 22nd – exactly 50 years after President Kennedy was assassinated in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas.

Of course you’ve noticed it – you can’t help but …  as everywhere you go there are signs that everybody in the media is commemorating the half century mark of the end of the Kennedy Era – an era that was terminated with bullets.

It’s been 50 years since the end of Camelot and we are told it was the end of the “idealism of the Sixties”.

Well, it has been fifty years, and it’s been fifty years of the Big Lie – the Big Lie that Kennedy was killed by a lone gunman, and that Kennedy’s killer was then killed himself – which wraps it all up rather nicely, – case closed. The Big Lie is the Warren Commission Report – and all its apologists and defenders.

The Big Lie includes the failure of government to adequately and fairly investigate the execution of America’s chief executive, it includes the dismissal, omission, suppression and misrepresentation of evidence, it includes the manipulation, dismissal and intimidation of witnesses – and ultimately elimination of witnesses.

The Big Lie represents the plot necessarily carried out by a conspiracy to eliminate JFK and then to cover it up; the Big Lie is the half century of a carefully calculated deception laid on the American people, a deception that allowed governmental policies involving getting the US out of Vietnam, restricting the war industry, ending nuclear brinkmanship with the Soviet Union, and reproachment with Cuba to be reversed.  The Big Lie is treason incarnate.

But the Big Lie is also very personal, as many Americans of my generation – the Sixties Generation – were all individually deeply affected by Kennedy’s murder and the subsequent shenanigans involving Jack Ruby killing Oswald on live TV.  And we were all affected as a generation, as a class of humans by what happened in Dallas.

Whether you’re a Sixties rep or younger, you’ve seen the films, the replays, the playbacks, the vids, the YouTubes on the assassination – so, by osmosis, you’ve been affected, culturally, psychologically, politically, …. with the point being that not only are Baby Boomers influenced by the killing, but everyone coming down the line since.

We Cannot Tell Lies to Our Children About What Happened in Dealey Plaza 50 Years Ago

So, with a half century under our belt, and with opinion polls consistently registering huge majorities of Americans who don’t believe the Warren Report conclusions that Oswald acted alone – consistent majorities since the time that the Warren Report was first released, we must come clean with ourselves. We must come clean with not only ourselves but with our children.  And we must come clean to power.

For how can we tell lies to our children about this  murder?

I have a child – a grown daughter – so I know I cannot tell her lies about what happened in Dealey Plaza 50 years ago. I cannot tell her lies especially about politics and the history of our country. So, I would turn to my daughter, who has only been alive for half of that half century, and I would say to her that I want her to know what happened and what didn’t happen so long ago – possibly an unimaginable time for someone so young – and I want to share an understanding of the gravity and significance of what happened from all the research I’ve done and all the research that others have done over these last five decades.

I would tell my daughter that it appears that there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy – a conspiracy that reached into the highest levels of our federal government and the military, including players within the Pentagon, the FBI, the CIA, the Secret Service.

This does not mean every member of every agency was involved, but enough key people were involved to make it happen, key and powerful people – people who  had the power to shut down the entire Washington DC telephone system within minutes of the assassination; key and powerful people who had access to Kennedy’s X-rays, medical photos and reports in order to alter them; key and powerful people who had the ability to squash evidence and intimidate witnesses.

Okay, key players had ties to organized crime, the Mob, and to anti-Castro Cubans – but none of  those outside government had the power to conduct a half century of cover-up, to conduct the Big Lie over the American people for so long.  We know there’s been attempts to connect Oswald with the Cubans or the Russians – but again – neither one of these forces could have accomplished what was indeed accomplished.

And I would say to my daughter that it also appears that the Cover-Up is alive and well, that the corporate mass media wants us to believe the Warren Report – despite the fact that in the late 1970s Congress convened an investigation of the Warren Report, and created the House Select Committee on Assassinations.  It concluded in 1979 that Oswald was not alone and that at least one shot came from the Grassy Knoll.  But hardly any media source is bringing  this up.

Between CNN, the History Channel, and National Geographic at least – as well as numerous books and current articles, it’s almost as if the Select Committee and its conclusions never existed.

Yet, one thing about time, it allows for continued research – and there’s been a mountain of research on the assassination and cover-up these past 50 years.  Here’s what most researchers have concluded:

  • Oswald was involved in intelligence services on behalf of the U.S government;
  • There is an overabundance of evidence that demonstrates that Oswald was framed for the assassination;
  • that he could not have physically pulled it off – from firing a decrepit rifle within a few seconds, to hitting a moving target, through tree leaves, to getting down four flights of stairs to end up in the lunch room, to returning to his boarding house, to shooting officer Tippet.
  • There’s also evidence that someone was impersonating Oswald for months before the Dealey Plaza incident.
  • Oswald did not act alone;
  • The existence of a cover-up, of a conspiracy – is proved by a combination of  the successful framing of Oswald coupled with successful attempts to suppress vital evidence;
  • Individuals within the federal government were involved and / or aware of the conspiracy;
  • Two very powerful men in government-  besides JFK and his brother Robert, the Attorney General – , were Vice-President Lyndon Johnson and FBI Director J Edgar Hoover; both men were close friends of the other, and both were facing the probable ending of their careers either before or after the upcoming 1964 Presidential elections. Kennedy was going to fire Hoover after his re-election and probably remove Johnson as his running mate (also Johnson faced several significant scandals and even possible prison time).
  • Hoover, the FBI head, had nearly veto power of whom Johnson appointed to the Warren Commission. His agency was the only investigative arm of the Commission and controlled the flow of evidence to the Commission’s staff.

These conclusions have been formulated based on all the holes and loose ends of the case.  I would like to address two that for me proved instrumental in pulling back the curtain.

Deaths of Material Witnesses

One of the most chilling aspects of this whole assassination thing is simply the extraordinary high number of mysterious deaths of material witnesses or people with information. Author and assassination researcher Jim Marrs determined that:

“In the three-year period which followed the murder of President Kennedy and Lee Harvey Oswald, 18 material witnesses died – six by gunfire, three in motor accidents, two by suicide, one from a cut throat, one from a karate chop to the neck, three from heart attacks and two from natural causes.”

The London Times hired an actuary who concluded that on November 22, 1963, the odds against these witnesses being dead by February 1967, were one hundred thousand trillion to one.

Even during the mid-1960s, there were whispers in Dallas about the number of strange and sudden deaths occurring to witnesses or to people with information about the assassination. Even into the 1980s, witnesses and others feared coming forward.

In a list below, people who had connections – even tenuous ones – to the assassination and are dead now, are listed by date of death.  But remember as you peruse this list, it’s only dealing with deaths and is not dealing with at least four people who claim to have been attacked or even shot.

Marrs also states:

Because so many of the these deaths involve persons either working with or connected with the CIA or other domestic intelligence services, the Agency has gone to some lengths to discredit the idea of mysterious deaths plaguing assassination witnesses.

Also crucial to note is how the deaths are grouped. Much of the early ones occurred during the period that the Warren Commission was conducting their investigation – and just afterwards. Also some deaths came in the late 1960s as New Orleans DA Jim Garrison was doing his investigation.  As Marrs says:

Other suspicious deaths occurred during the mid-1970s, as the Senate Intelligence Committee was looking into assassinations by U.S. intelligence agencies. And finally, another spate of deaths came around 1977, just as the House Select Committee on Assassinations was gearing up its investigations.

The list has deaths in chronological order with an asterisk (*) signifying that the death is a particularly suspicious one. (Ed.: the 3rd list was short and is here intentionally omitted.)

 JFK Ass deaths list 01

JFK Ass deaths list 02

  The Backyard Photo

Another area that was instrumental in my own understanding as to the extent of the cover-up is the backyard photo of Oswald with guns, supposedly taken by Marina Oswald.  While in custody, Oswald claimed his face was pasted onto somebody else’s body.  And it sure looks that way.

When Life magazine published the following photo of Lee Harvey with a rifle in February 1964, most Americans were then convinced that Oswald was the culprit. Life mag helped convict him in the public’s mind.

JFK ass Oswald backyd Life

First, notice the differences in the direction of the shadows on the face – under the eyes and nose – the shadow are as if the sun is directly overhead.  Now check the shadows of the body and other objects.  Those shadows are elongated as if the sun was in the later afternoon or early morning.

Second,  look at a close-up of the chin area of the face. You can make out a line across the upper chin, plus notice that the chin is square without a cleft.

JFK Ass Oswald backyd closeup

JFK Ass Oswald chinOswald had more of a straight chin and had a cleft.

JFK assass OswaldSee the differences? See the different angle of the shadows?

If you do, then you realize the photo is a fake.  Oswald’s upper face is cut out and pasted onto someone else’s body.

A fake photo – supposedly found in his possessions after his arrest – shouts out CONSPIRACY!

Actually there were 3 backyard photos – and all had the exact same face despite the different postures of the body.

The Role of the Corporate Mass Media

This all raises the issue of the role of the mass corporate media. Certainly the cover-up had no more willing partner than the mass media.  This can be seen in the above front cover of Life magazine published 3 months after the murder.  The mag’s caption to the photo was this:

“Lee Oswald with the weapons he used to kill President Kennedy and Officer Tippet.”

Life stated this, even while knowing there was contrary evidence.  It had bought the rights to the Zapruder film, but withheld from the public key frames demonstrating a frontal shot taking Kennedy’s back head off – clearly not conducive and totally contrary to the Warren Commission’s conclusions.  Was the publication aware of the problems with the photo?  If it did, nothing was said about it 49 years ago.

Jim Marrs has been studying the role of the media for a long time. He stated:

From the moment the Kennedy assassination occurred, coverage of the tragedy involved government manipulation of a news media that appeared only too willing to be manipulated.

The big media praised the Warren Report when it was released in September 1964, and to this day, continues to obfuscate the public’s knowledge and understanding of the assassination and cover-up.

Marrs has observed over the years:

The one television network that continually backed the Warren Commission version of the assassination was CBS, where newsman Dan Rather served as one of the anchors on assassination reports since 1967. Rather was one of the only news reporters who managed to see the Zapruder film in the days following the assassination and falsely reported at the fatal head shot his head ‘went forward with considerable violence.’ “

 In those days after the Kennedy killing – before the media changed – there were no independent investigations.  And instead of following up on dozens of leads that the Warren Commission left dangling, the corporate media went after critics of the official story.

Even if individual reporters figured out that something was amiss, they were ordered by their employers to stay away from the scandal.  The media networks figured that if there were wrongdoing at the top of the country’s political structure, they best shy away, as they sensed that the new Johnson era was not going to allow independent examination into what happened.

The top leaders feared war, war with Cuba, even war with Russia, the story went. The nation could not be allowed to panic and pressure the politicos to invade Cuba or start WWIII.

So the major press – the New York Times, the Washington Post, the 3 major networks – CBS, NBC and ABC – all got the message. Conflicting views on the Warren would not be tolerated.

 The Cover-Up Leads to American Skepticism and Questioning of Government

The subsequent cover-up of the assassination pushed my generation into questioning our government – something that good people never did. And this led to a decade and half of the Sixties Generation rebellion against the war in Vietnam, opposing the intolerable treatment of African-Americans and other minorities, of changing the way women were treated in society, of being against the country’s mainstream culture and mores, and raising the issues of “peace” – something Kennedy was allegedly striving for with the USSR, with Vietnamese and with Cuba.

Sixties idealism did not fade with JFK’s killing.  His death did allow many of us to oppose the Big Lies of our day – that our government was in Vietnam to help the people there – and not actually protecting corporate mining, rubber, tin and other economic interests in South East Asia.

One of the first things Johnson did when he assumed the White House was to reverse course in Vietnam, as Kennedy had ordered the first troop withdrawals.  This allowed the military-industrial complex to prosper – for war is good business.

As long as the Big Lie continues, America cannot be itself, cannot live its ideals – those expressed in our founding documents.

Yet Kennedy’s assassination and the cover-up have become part of America, part of the American psyche – part of our national makeup and history.

And those who have striven over these last 50 years to try to understand what exactly happened and why in Dealey Plaza are owned a mountain of gratitude by their fellow citizens, for they are the real heroes.  As long as they work, as long as they exist, and as long as others like us listen to them and understand what they’ve found, the Big Lie will someday die.

Maybe it will die with our children, for as long as we don’t lie to them about this national scandal and corrosion of our ideals, there’s a chance that in the next generation, no one will be around to lie to them about who and why Kennedy was murdered.

 

{ 41 comments… read them below or add one }

avatar Catherine November 22, 2013 at 4:26 pm

Thanks for submitting this letter and I am interested in reading any follow up comments to this letter.

“How the Kennedy Tragedy Made Me a Better Teacher” 50 years of the Big Lie

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avatar Seth November 22, 2013 at 10:29 pm

Against my better judgment, I’ll offer a few thoughts from someone born nearly a decade after the event. Like most Americans, I’ve spent some time struggling to wrap my mind around it. It’s amazingly complex, and the data is flawed and incomplete. As an intellectual endeavor, viewed judiciously, there is too much uncertainty for me to have any sort of definitive view. Such is life.

I do think the most likely scenario is the lone gunman theory. This is not an endorsement of every bit of the Warren Commission or dismissal of every bit of every other theory, just my belief that it is the most likely of all scenarios, given the information at hand. It has been scrutinized well past all other theories combined, and while valid questions remain, it is not at all disproven. Sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction.

The most valid of the remaining valid questions for me is Oswald’s relationship with the CIA. IMO, there was likely more contact and perhaps more of a relationship than has been disclosed, that quite possibly would have made them look bad if it came to light. Maybe even a lot more of a relationship. Can’t dismiss it. I will say that if held to the same scrutiny as the “official story”, it doesn’t hold up as well for me. Oswald was an unhinged loose cannon, and even for the purposes of cultivating a patsy, why would an organization that relies on total discretion have guys like him anywhere near the most sensitive covert operation of all-time? Or Jack Ruby, for that matter? And to let both get taken into custody and then speak on camera? I don’t see it.

Nothing has really stuck out to me about the other conspiracy theories. There were weird coincidences, but there always are, especially if you drill down as deep for as long as people have with JFK. Most of them have been disproven over and over, and some are just nonsense. The problem with taking any of that on is that you end up having to defend 1-2 scenarios with hundreds of scenarios that have been cultivated in an echo chamber for many years by many people in a self-referencing paradigm that proves itself for the people who believe it.

On some level, I think we are prone to conspiracy theory for these types of events in the same way we are prone to religion or urban legend. We are not content with uncertainty as a species. For big things that people either don’t have all the answers for, or don’t want to have the answers for, I think people need to create explanations they are comfortable with. I don’t say that to be dismissive, but you see it every time with events like this, from the moon landing to 9-11 to the Marathon bombings or what have you. One conspiracy theory gets disproven, just alter it or move to the next one.

As a person who grew up in a law enforcement family, with multiple close relatives who were highly seasoned in investigating thousands of homicide cases and dealing with the principals involves (several rather high-profile), there’s a lot of this exceptional case that really isn’t that exception. Chaotic crime scene with wildly diverging witness testimony, sub-intelligent down-on-ther-luck criminals who deny everything while searching for whatever it is they think you want to hear, incomplete evidence, amateur investigators with all the answers, etc…

Probably one of the most misunderstood professions out there, simply because everyone who has ever watched an episode of Dragnet/Hill Street Blues/The Wire/CSI thinks they understand it intrinsically.

JMO.

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avatar john eisenhart November 24, 2013 at 10:39 pm

Frank, same thing happened at 911. A big lie. Buildings do not collapse in the manner explained by NIST. WTC 1, 2 and especially WTC 7 are grand anomalies in the field of architecture. The world is a wiggly place. Lies, deception, conspiracy are common. Check out John Carpenter’s classic”They Live” . Put on a good pair of sunglasses and see the freak show.

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avatar Thomas November 25, 2013 at 1:01 pm

Sorry Frank but all of the physics have been proven out.
The 6.5 mm Carcano Model 91/38 carbine was not a junk rifle but a very decent military rifle. Don’t forget Oswald scored ‘sharpshooter’ using a M-1 Garand when he was in the Marine Corps. The distances from the book repository to JFK was 265 feet, or about 88 yards. Any decent shooter can hit targets out to 100 yards using iron sights. Oswald used a 4X scope.
Getting off 3 rounds under 8 seconds on a bolt action rifle is not difficult, if someone has practiced a bit with a bolt action rifle.

The political atmosphere of the time though lends to some great conspiracy theories, just like 911 or the resignation of Mayor Filner. Of course conspiracy theories make for great entertainment that gets played out in books, movies, and various TV shows. But in the end it was just Oswald acting alone, Al-Qaeda pulling off an extremely horrible act of terrorism, and Filner’s bad behavior.

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avatar Frank Gormlie November 25, 2013 at 3:23 pm

Thomas, have to disagree: 1) the Italian Carcano is universally recognized as a very poor rifle; the one purported to be Oswald’s had to have experts use shims even to be able to use the scope in later tests; tests by the way no expert could complete 3 shots within 6 seconds due to the slow bolt action.
2) Oswald was ABSOLUTELY a poor shot while in the Marines – this is undisputed.
3) Again, even real expert rifle shooters could not make the shots;
4) Re: the “political atmosphere” – I’m getting real tired of people saying there’s some kind of obsession or unreasonable attachment to the so-called theories that dare to question the Warren Commission report; it’s more like people have an obsession with getting to the truth as neither the government or mass media seem interested.
5) Your linkage of the JFK assassination / cover-up with Filner does not deserve a response.
6) I go with the majority of Americans: Oswald did not do it alone.

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avatar Seth November 25, 2013 at 7:07 pm

Question on the 6-8 seconds thing. Does that clock start at the first shot? If so, that’s only 2 shots in 6-8 seconds, no? Yeah, bolt-action rifle, but still.

As to the shots being recreated by expert shooters, that seems to be a mixed bag. I don’t think Oswald was a great shot in the Marines, just good by civilian standards. Those are also not long-distance shots by any stretch.

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avatar Frank Gormlie November 25, 2013 at 9:26 pm

JFK was killed by a classic triangular shot pattern. Anyone who has seriously studied the theory of Oswald being the solo assassin from the 6th floor, etc comes up with a whole range of questions and understandings of the simple impossibility of Oswald doing it as the Warren Commission reports. It’s no big deal of this thing called “conspiracy”. All it means is that there was at least someone else assisting him. It’s not that huge a threshold. And once crossed, a whole new world of critique opens up.

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avatar Seth November 25, 2013 at 10:56 pm

I don’t by any means think the lone gunman theory is the only one, just the most plausible with the info at hand. 80% of the people at the scene reported hearing three shots, and while acoustics may vary widely on that perception, so do witness reports in such a chaotic scene.

I don’t think it was that impossible to hit 2 of 3 shots at relatively close range in the given timeframe. Not easily, but definitely possible. Both JFK wounds seem to have come from behind, as the exit wound will typically be the larger one. I do think he was likely the only shooter.

I’m not married to that theory, but what I am looking for is an alternate one with more credibility. The problem for me is that while people can raise totally valid questions all day long, I have not yet seen a singular alternative that is more likely to me.

Biggest remaining issue to me is the extent of his relationship with the CIA. Their radio silence and utter denials are a tacit admission of something that doesn’t look good for them, but what?

I suspect that he was likely cultivated at some point to some extent, before being cut loose, which alone would have been explosive info at the time.

Bottom line for me is that I just cannot be that definitive about any of it, but would just like all theories to be held to the same burden of proof. There will always be coincidences and conflicting info.

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avatar Thomas December 4, 2013 at 8:02 am

And the Apollo Moon landing was staged right Frank?

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avatar Frank Gormlie December 5, 2013 at 3:31 pm

Why try to discredit someone by using an absurdity that has no relation to anything else?

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avatar GKamburoff November 27, 2013 at 6:15 pm

Sharpshooter is not Expert. It is two levels down. I do not believe Oswald was competent to make such a shot.

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avatar Bob November 25, 2013 at 8:05 pm

Poor Thomas above continues to live in his world of delusion that Oswald was the lone shooter. Some other experts also proclaim that it was possible for Kennedy’s head to fly( backwards) in motion, while being (shot from the rear). Only an idiot would swallow that hogwash, because physics dictates different.
What about the return address on the pamphlets Oswald was passing out (fair play for Cuba) 544 Camp St New Orleans. It was the office’s of Guy Bannister Chief CIA officer. That is proof that Oswald was in the employee of the CIA. and set up as patsy. Oh, he was a shooter, but not the only one; In a auto biography by New york Mafia Boss (Joe Bonano says) that Johnson LBJ was the Mobs man and that the Kennedy’s crossed the mob who moved organized labor to help get JFK elected only to have Bobby turn against the mob. Remember that Valichi papers and Jimmy Hoffa fighting with Bobby Kennedy at the hearings on organized crime. WAKE UP AMERICA !!!!

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avatar Debra December 6, 2013 at 12:57 pm

That’s who I think was behind the whole thing, too.

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avatar Old Hermit Dave November 26, 2013 at 12:43 pm

This video sums up my feelings 100%.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJFzhbNd1EI

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avatar Bob November 26, 2013 at 1:00 pm

Thanks to Old Hermit Dave; and the video he suggest gets about as plain as it can be. We need to face facts. People who insist that there was no conspiracy, just can’t see it even though it is right there in front of them. Again the smoking gun is the pamphlets that Oswald was passing out, that had the return address of 544 camp st. Goggle that !!!
544 camp was the office of Guy Bannister, a known CIA operative working out of that address in New Orleans. That is where Oswald got the pamphlets, and that is were he got paid. —— FROM THE CIA !!!

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avatar Seth November 26, 2013 at 1:20 pm

Banister actually worked out of the office next door, with a different address and street. It’s a perplexing piece of info, but it really may just have been Oswald trying to antagonize the anti-Castro activists who once used that Camp Street address as an office in order to help bolster his credentials for trying to emigrate to Cuba.

The argument seems to be that an actual CIA operative would be just completely lacking in discretion, which is less than logical to me. Wouldn’t they want *no* ties or paper trail to the guy if they were setting him up as a patsy?

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avatar Frank Gormlie December 5, 2013 at 3:35 pm

Oswald worked with the anti-Castro Cubans, as did Bannister; Oswald carelessly placed a return address on his so-called ‘pro-Cuba’ leaflets that was Bannister’s. Hmm, what paper trails? Seems like they covered the trail pretty well, and for half a century. It’s very humiliating really to realize that we’ve been fooled for so long.

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avatar Seth December 5, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Again, nothing definitive about any of this for me, but in terms of this piece of the puzzle:

Bannister had an office in the same building, but not the same address (531 Lafayette Street) as the anti-Castro group that was no longer even at 544 Camp Street. Yes, definitely fishy, and one of the many things that makes me question the extent of his relationship with the CIA, but as with the rest of the conspiracy smoking guns, not as fishy as many people are presenting it.

I don’t believe that Oswald was anti-Castro, and apparently, neither did that group, who attacked him for passing out those pro-Castro leaflets with said address on them. Seems more likely that he was trying to infiltrate them or at least keep tabs on the “enemy” by making contact with them/attending their meetings. Oswald had done something similar when (apparently) attending a right-wing meeting with General Walker speaking in October, months after (apparently) trying to assassinate him.

Ultimately, I do think that he was a communist, and not just pretending to be one. His writings on this go back to his teen years, well prior to joining the military, emigrating to the Soviet Union, marrying a Russian woman and later trying to emigrate to Cuba just before the assassination. Would a pro-communist former Marine be of interest to the CIA during the height of the Cold War? No question about that, for any number of reasons up to and including the assassination of JFK. But with the other pieces of his puzzle, it also fits with the notion of some lost soul who was dissatisfied enough with his own country (and life) to shoot its President.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 5, 2013 at 7:13 am

There are no conspiracies that are true, only lots of like minded American idiots, Now that is no conspiracy!

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avatar Frank Gormlie December 5, 2013 at 3:33 pm

When treason prospers, none dare call it treason. (to paraphrase a famous saying)

Not sure what you’re saying here Gary, as all it takes is two people to make a conspiracy. So have difficult would that be?

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 6, 2013 at 1:57 pm

I am saying that there has so clearly been evidence of a plot to kill President Kennedy that has been poorly but effectively covered up. And in spite of how much irreconcilable information exists around the official story, what can be counted on is the intransigeance of Americans to insist that they live in a different world than the rest, where bad things only happen somewhere else. The same attitude relates to any point in American history where may lie an inconvenient truth, but mostly those “incidents” since the JFK assasination. It is also likely that those same players who were complicit in these betrayals to the American people are still in powerful positions and continue to influence foreign and domestic policy.

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avatar Frank Gormlie December 6, 2013 at 2:18 pm

Can’t argue with you on most of that, except, most Americans have believed that there has been and/or is a conspiracy to kill JFK since day one of the Warren Commission Report.

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avatar Bob December 5, 2013 at 12:15 pm

It is amazing to me that there are only a few really ( handful ) of truly intelligent individuals left on this plant. And they some how have decided in all their supremacy that every body else are idiots. Congratulations.

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avatar Bob December 5, 2013 at 7:03 pm

I agree with Frank and Seth to this extent We all know something is fishy. Seth say’s bannister’s office was at a different address. I read it was in the same building. and that the space where the pamphlets were printed was paid for by bannister. I just read that; so, just because I read it, doesn’t make it so. The Warren Commission report is in writing and I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that anybody has a better overview on this, than Jim Garrison, who wrote two books on the subject and then was hounded out of business and off the media. He must have been on to something, or why did he meet with so much resistance? one of the books was “Destiny Betrayed” and I can’t think of the other “The Garrison Tapes” maybe. Anyone that believes there is no conspiracy must have been living under a rock. Good luck to you all Bob

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avatar Bob December 6, 2013 at 1:52 pm

I can’t see why we are debating what has already been proven as fact. Oswald was CIA. weather he was a shooter may never be known. Some will say that Oliver Stone’s movie is just a movie, however it is based on the criminal investigation by New Orleans Prosecuting Attorney Jim Garrison.

There is a documentary on u-tube entitled
“the JFK assassination, the Jim Garrison tapes 1992 PLEASE WATCH IT !!!
Garrison indited Clay Shaw for conspiracy to kill president Kennedy. And In my mind proved his case even though Shaw was found not guilty. I wonder why ?????????

Garrison also wrote two books One was “Destiny betrayed” I believe. It details his own personal independent investigation. That coming up with completely different conclusions than those of the phoney Warren commission, and any other subsequent government probe . It is not a question of “Was there a conspiracy” the question is WHO AND HOW MANY, that field growing all the time. I believe the Bush family was involved down to my toes.

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avatar Frank Gormlie December 6, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Garrison was a brave and patriotic American.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 7, 2013 at 4:24 pm

It is time to move beyond the “unspeakable” and call what happened with JFK what it was; a coup against the civilian government by the intelligence establishment! So they killed him, now what next? There were protests and riots and dictatorships and illegal wars in the interceding years. That us why there is ALBA now in the Southern Cone countries. And the same business is going on now with a slightly modified script thanks to Gene Sharp and human rights interventions in Eastern Europe, North Africa, and continually in Venezuela. The discussion needs to move beyond conspiracy conjecture to state terrorism in the service of foreign policy objectives and whether the American people are actually OK with these methodologies in support of “their” country and diminishing share of the pie or are willing to take back the kingdom from powerful speculators.

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avatar Bob December 6, 2013 at 2:33 pm

Gary explains his earlier comments were he called all of America Idiots, thinking that they have all buried there heads in the sand.

Gary !! That’s why they call it a cover up !!! Were not stupid, were not suppose to know !!!

What are you gonna do about it? ( the cover up I mean) will we let this stand? considering that the same system ( Military Industrial Complex) is still in power trying to start wars, so they can manufacturers war implements and make Billions in the process. Kennedy was killed because he was about to bring an end to the war in Viet Nam. Johnson and his friends at Brown and Root, McDonnell aircraft, and every other war facility was giving kick backs (campaign finance) to the power mongers.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 7, 2013 at 4:04 pm

Americans can start somewhere; by not throwing their votes to the Republican and Democratic parties that are beholden to the Military Industrial Scientific Educational Complex. What do you call people who keep making the same mistake and expect a different outcome anyway? Follow the money of those who support our legislation, elect our politicians…even MoveOn. We are taking the bait every time and not insisting on a different system.

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avatar Bob December 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm

Now this conversation is getting interesting. For a long time now I have been trying to get help with a nation wide petition on a referendum for a vote of confidence, effectively asking congress to resign. How do you like those apples ?
Problem is that there is no national referendum process. My understanding is that referendums are only done by States. What’s up with that ?

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 8, 2013 at 3:13 am

I seem to remember a referendum in California unseating Gray Davis by the Republicans funded by Bush’s Enron buddies after they robbed the state coffers. Am I remembering this wrong?

California gubernatorial recall election – Wikipedia, the free …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_gubernatorial_recall_election?
It resulted in voters replacing incumbent Democratic Governor Gray Davis … The ability to recall elected officials came along with the initiative and referendum processes. … If an elected official commits a crime while in office, the state legislature can …. Davis took his mandate from the voters and sought out a centrist position …

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avatar Bob December 8, 2013 at 10:32 am

We need to ask ourselves why we are not afforded the same process at the Federal level.
Or should we just call it impeachment, and be done with it?
the problem with impeachment is that it must be done by lawyers, not a mandate by citizens.
The fox guarding the hen house again.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 8, 2013 at 3:38 pm

We are afforded a process called free will; to disenfranchise the existing political establishment by withdrawing our support.

Because we have been made and kept idiotic, by a cynical and condescending political elite, we lack the ability to engage our power to change our conditions and continue to act stupid by voting for the same . The official “national” state of mind, fomented with decades of crisis managed theatrics, now crave enemies to drive our militarized economy. We have become a collective psychosis that exists in the narrative of a controlled media, geographically and socially isolated, now increasingly so, fitted into our virtual computer lives.

Most, in the mainstream, have only the guarded environment of the workplace for social interaction and comparison. Many believe the internet has given us new access to media, but our information choices are largely fashioned by our pre-cxisting beliefs about our world and ourselves. American television reproduces the security and militarized state of our existence in relation to the rest of the world.

Under the constraints of globalization, U.S. Americans, are being told that security is our greatest issue. Think about this in relation to the events of November 22, 1963. Have we really ever gone to collective therapy on that one?

We are now entering into a national project to be the military and security enforcement for world democracy, which is U.S. code-speak for protecting wealth creation and its main beneficiaries. Our soul as a nation was assassinated with JFK.

Can you imagine Americans coming to terms with that?

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avatar Bob December 8, 2013 at 3:56 pm

What’s your point ? ( Every body on this site), and millions of others all know there’s a problem. Now, we can either repeat over and over again, that we are pissed off about it, Or we can try to think of a solution.
Gary no disrespect, but calling all of America idiots is not really getting us any where. Even if it is true.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 9, 2013 at 4:09 am

The point is to face up to what the national project being asserted by our foreign policy establishment is and to discuss why, who elected them, and what alternative vision is acceptable to the majority of the population, even if it is empire. I think there is enough evidence to establish motive coming from legislation, State Department wanks, corporately funded think tanks and extra-governmental agencies to be clear to what is being said. We can begin by stop acting surprised about wars that have been planned for years and discuss the reasoning and goals of those policy directives.

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avatar Bob December 9, 2013 at 10:16 am

I agree with all that, and it’s true that the citizenry of the Whole world need an education. My point is, that most people will not listen to you, if you begin by calling them Idiots. It’s called alienation.

The best thing I heard you say was, and I quote you —— “What alternative vision is acceptable to the majority of the population.
I considered to be an epic statement, but how to bring that about ??? That’s my goal.
It’s called democracy.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 9, 2013 at 3:23 pm

I included myself in that idiocy for a time. I have couched it in much more prosaic terms to avoid confrontation such as apathetic or disengaged, but it is not working to strike home to where people take it personally. Maybe seeking the lowest common denominator has its effect. You know I don’t mean the people are intrinsically that, but the behavior is.

I suspect that Americans, on the whole, will follow the herd and not even know where it is leading to. Those who believe that the country has lost its way are one degree of honesty, few understand that democracy was a goal yet to be achieved. I think Kennedy understood that. He said, “The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.” Maybe that is the word we can agree on.

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avatar Bob December 9, 2013 at 6:38 pm

I’m only interested in results, What’s your plan ?? Anybody ?

Futureize our attitudes ??? If i said we need to nationalize the petroleum companies, I get branded communist.

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avatar Gary Ghirardi December 10, 2013 at 2:01 am

Somebody is not the plan. May there be no more Obamas for our America, thank you please. The change that Obama brought us is how sophisticated has become state craft. I can’t say I have a plan and plans are conditional and thus are really always changing and results are in the eye and mindset of the beholder. I started on supporting a local project, for youth demilitarization then was given the opportunity to assist on a national project, and now on an international project. I will be pleased if I can accomplish my work effectively measured by others and not become that work myself. When we give ourselves to good work we change things for the better.

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avatar Bob December 10, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Congratulations Gary! Were all very happy for you .

NOW !!! Is there anybody else out there that has an idea about how we can start a movement That will unseat the elitist? Or, are we just reminiscing the past here ?

There was a coupe De’ ta in 1963, and even though Kennedy was partially a part of the same hypocrisy, he tried to repair it, however his greatest feat, was that by his death, It was given as a warning alarm, that something was wrong. NOW WHAT ?

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avatar Bill Charleston February 24, 2014 at 6:47 pm

The fact that at least 90% of Americans believe we will never know the truth is a psychological issue, not one based on insufficient evidence.

There is a way to PROVE that a conspiracy killed JFK. It uses the fact that there are TWO INDEPENDENT ways to determine the time between shots. I show that the times between shots are the same in both which proves many things. The US government and others have piled layer upon layer of BS on top of simple facts to hide the truth.

http://vimeo.com/86549830

If you can THINK without the presstittues and gubermint censors telling you what to think and why, then you can know the truth. Lying to Americans is easy, they could care less what you think; they only have to fool the presstitutes, the group of people who are generally technically illiterate but they hold the keys to what Americans think.

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