Martha Sullivan, a member of Occupy San Diego, addresses the San Diego Citizen Review Board, Jan. 24, 2012. Photos by Rocky Neptun.
Most stood and spoke with pride and respect, cradling their cause reverently, boldly, while others barely concealed their rage with fiery speeches. They told of being knocked to the ground, punched, the burn of mace in their faces, shoved against concrete walls, brutally dragged to police vans, being booked into jail on outrageous felony charges; all in retaliation for using their U.S. Constitutionally guaranteed rights of free speech and free assembly.
Forty citizens gathered at the San Diego Citizens’ Review Board on Police Practices, Tuesday evening, January 25, pleading with its 23 members to investigate not only the San Diego Police Departments continuing harassment of the Occupy San Diego movement but the SDPD’s frightening new policy of allowing police officers to change, modify and make new laws on the spot.
Middle-class housewives, small business owners, veterans, an attorney, college students, even downtown employees passing by, victimized by the sustained police violence in the Civic Center Plaza. These were not members of the “great unwashed horde of radicals,” although there were a few aging hippies in the crowd, and, almost in unison, their imploration to the police review board was to find out who ordered this campaign against citizen rights and find a way to end it.
The meeting of the Police Review Board was opened with an explanation of its purpose which included, in addition to investigating specific complaints against individual officers, “to present policy and procedural recommendations to the city.” Questionable whether the Board was representative of our diverse city [there were no blacks, no Hispanics, no Latinas, no representatives from working-class areas or the poor sitting at the table], yet the chair announced “we are citizens in an oversight role.”
Warning that San Diego Police behavior is out of control, Attorney Adrian Beraccialo, alluded to that oversight role and called on the Review Board to investigate “police violence which is happening on a weekly basis.” Noting that she was a member of the National Lawyers Guild and had been arbitrarily arrested and abused by a police officer named McCory for her monitoring activities, she spoke of people being arrested for activities which were not criminal. “Most Occupy arrests are unlawful,” she said, “and while police actions may be technically legal, they are totally inappropriate and a waste to taxpayers’ money.” She warned the Board that several of her clients have been injured during bogus arrests where no charges were filed and these retaliatory and punitive actions by police officers will result in millions of dollars in civil litigation for the city.
Denouncing the city of San Diego’s continuing war on civil liberties, free speech and the right of assembly, many speakers pointed out that the absurd $2.4 million spent on destroying the San Diego Occupy Movement was an obscene waste, particularly in light of the fact that 90 percent of the arrestees have not been charged in court.
Speaking on the “selective law enforcement” at the Civic Center Plaza, one veteran said he had signed up to defend the Constitution of the United States “against all enemies, both foreign and domestic,” and noted that anyone who denies free speech is an enemy. “Someone has let the attack dogs of the lease,” he shouted, “and I want to know who?”
“I am horrified at police actions and abuse I have witnessed,” downtown businessman Ben Cass told the Review Board. “Freedom of speech is what keeps us together as a society and selective law enforcement against political opponents is wrong.”
Occupy San Diego supporters at Citizens Review Board meeting.
He noted that if police had arrested people for sitting in chairs or carrying an American Flag at Martin Luther King Day activities there would have been an uproar and he pointed out that the Republican Party recently held an event with table and chairs at the very site where Occupy folks are routinely harassed and arrested for gathering.
“Tonight’s testimony is chilling,” Stephanie Jennings, 51, a founding member of a San Diego organization that aids the poor and infirmed, told the Review Board members. Injured by police officers, she told of being targeted “because of my political views.” Pointing out there has been over a hundred arrests at the civic center, she said “there is a clear pattern by the SDPD to silence us and I want to know who is calling the shots.”
One thin young man named Cliff, in quivering voice, quietly told the Board that all he wanted was a space where people could come and practice democracy and “question their government.” He told of being traumatized and forever transformed at watching seven police officers drag a crippled, homeless man out of his wheel chair and slam him into the pavement in retaliation for warning others who were sleeping that the police were approaching.
He paused for a moment, nervous energy seeming to draw inward, looking into the eyes of the Police Review Board, none under 40 years of age, glancing at the uniformed police officers at the table his stance became resilient, a reflex of defiance of their Orwellian world, and in a friendly yet firm voice warned the Police Review Board, “I am not going anywhere, Occupy San Diego is not going anywhere; in fact, we are only going to get larger.”
{ 51 comments… read them below or add one }
We’re having technical difficulties in posting photos on our home page.
Also, we’re not certain of the identify of the OSD woman addressing the Board in the top photo – although we think we know who it is.
It’s me! Martha Sullivan. Thank you for this account, Mr. Neptun.
Great, Martha, I’ll inform the editorial staff.
It’s great to hear that so many showed up to voice their concerns/outrage, etc. I hope the board will actually do something.
Thank you for this article, Rocky Neptun and OBRag. We’re unlikely to see such an article in the UT or spoken of on local TV news channels. The cumulative testimony covered here truly is chilling, and I suspect we can make an educated guess as to who ordered the excessive “law enforcement” against Occupy SD.
Thank you Occupiers and supporters for following through on this avenue of maneuver. It is an important venue for our complaints of police harassment. An important one – although not necessarily a satisfying one. Just how limited the power this Board has will soon be seen. Over the course of a couple of decades, activists in OB have approached this Board with complaints of police abuse – and even killings, as in the case of Tony Tummania, shot down by police in OB in the early nineties.
I am very proud of the way my fellow occupiers conducted this meeting with dignity and decorum, as they always attempt to do. Big hug to you, Cliff. I can relate to how you were traumatized, and so sorry that this event occurred. Both viewing such a thing and having it happened to this disabled person.
Some of the people who gave those orders will find themselves behind bars.
I am particularly interested in the people who continued to order Sleep Deprivation tactics even after they knew they had made a mistake. I am interested in why a high ranking seems to have forgotten or neglected a chance to reduce tension levels. I am interested in why an officer with a grudge kept being assigned to late night duty at Occupy. I am furious about the flag confiscations.
I will try hard to make sure that the responsible parties face the full legal consequences of their contempt for the First Amendment, civil and criminal.
I will look them in the eye and watch them flinch inside. They tortured my friends.
Correction: It was Ben Katz, not Ben Cass. Thanks for a great article!
As someone who has watched the Police all the Police in San Diego County over the course of four years now, San Diego is in huge trouble. This is NAZI GERMANY and the year is 1941. even the federal Govt. is guilty of these crimes and worse. San Diego is now become ALABAMA 195o’s all over again.
Unfortunately, so true.
Gain some historical perspective before you start comparing police in San Diego to one of the worst regimes and organizations in history. Because I don’t recall the San Diego police murdering an entire town of citizens recently, do you? Yah, neither do I. It’s an insult to history and the victims of that heinous regime.
I remember sometime shortly after 1998 there was a homeless man armed with a large stick or branch that was gunned down by SDPD who thought their own lives were endangered. The number 7 stays in my mind, 7 shots to kill the man, or 7 police to subdue him.
And that’s somehow similar to the systematic slaughter of millions of people? Good grief. I’d recommend you read a few books on the Nazi before trying to draw any parallels.
Dear Bearded OBcean
Sorry for being a cause for your apparent dramatic distress. I am sorry if I misled by just bringing up one example. You will agree that probably starting in the forties, this country has changed, but not for the better. I see trends. Can you see how this country has fallen into the worst economic shape it has been in since the last great depression? Why is global discontent growing? No signs of it letting up. Do you really believe that the same circumstances could not come about as in Germany? Do you not see the frightening growth of the war machines in our own country? I have many books on Nazi Germany. I am a Registered nurse and I recall in the past having patients with the infamous numbers tattooed on the underside of the wrists of patients. At one point I had to draw back and focus elsewhere for awhile. Apparently, you have never ventured to seek out Police brutality on the You Tube site. Do you consider that disabled man in a wheelchair being brutally assualted by the police at CC an act of heroism because he was only one person, not a whole city? True heroes these SDPDers? Take out the most vulnerable by police and you get your heroes? Does not the frightening militarization of local police concern you? Obviously you are not of the 99%. And not an “Obcean?”
Would you have stood by when this disabled man was brutalized and said “good job, fellows, only one, not a whole city?”
I remember that police shooting, was that the one on Midway by Mcdonald’s and a news helicopter was there just seconds after they shot him, showing the absurdity of how he was outnumbered?
In any case that and this more recent incident of OWS being denied the “right” to camp out and occupy public land and facilities hardly compare to the situation in Nazi Germany at the start of WW2. Such dramatic emotionally appealing comparisons if anything only serve to discredit a given cause by trivializing the undoubtedly tragic one they would be compared to.
I don’t feel like I’m in Nazi Germany, but then I have no fear whatsoever of being handed a beat down by SDPD because I know if a sworn peace officer gives me a legal order I have to comply with it.
At what point in these peoples’ upbringing did someone fail so completely that they allowed these people to reach adulthood with the belief saying “no” to a police officer was a viable course of action? Do you practice such behavior? Do you think it’s alright to give it a shot if there are enough of you?
I believe in the message they were trying to send to the establishment, and the fact is the establishment was tolerant of the messengers and allowed this to go on for several weeks before taking any action against them.
I believe that was the right to peaceful assembly and protest we are guaranteed. When they were told to disperse and did not, and locked arms in solidarity, they were inviting the police to respond as they did. Whether it is one or a hundred people, the police have tactics to deal with a situation, if you challenge a police officer’s authority you should expect unfortunate results. If you don’t like the law he is sent to enforce there are ways to change it, if you can’t perhaps you aren’t the majority you think you are. (this pertains to anarchy not economic policies, to clarify)
Hopefully my dissent with your position does not warrant a response with unpleasantry such as “Obviously you are not of the 99%. And not an “Obcean?””
Does either of those labels include support of anarchy? We’re to believe this is a matter of OWS being deprived of their “rights”. I’m reading in another article how OWS’ San Francisco chapter decided to “occupy” a vacant 600 room hotel, and found themselves being “deprived of the right” to hurl furniture off the roof of the building. We saw what happened in Oakland. We saw OWS SD keeping honest hard working people from going about their duties at the port of San Diego.
Do I have to blindly support that kind of childish nonsense, or rush to compare isolated events of people inviting police to kick their ass to Nazi Germany, to live in OB or declare my disgust for excessive corporate profiting, and hope some change for the better of citizens of every class is coming?
You are not allowed to say no to a police officer? Really? What if what he orders you to do is not a “law”? What if he tells you to hit the man next to you?
What if the police officer tells me as a woman I must strip before him/her? It’s happened. Was that person suppose to just say yes? Just because a person is in uniform….does not mean he/she is giving you a LAWFUL order.
That is one of the lessons from Germany….it’s how far a society will go if you do not learn to stand up for what is “right”.
Do you really believe a person should be handcuffed and put into jail for sitting on a chair? Laying on the ground?
When do YOU question what is “right” or “wrong” and stand up for it….instead of just the mind set… Just OBEY and everything will be all right.
I put up good thoughts for you John. : )
Good post Tammy, regarding blind obedience to lawmen. Good examples of many recent SDPD scandals regarding this subject. Bribery is lawful?
I don’t know how this one is getting so off track but I’m not suggesting “blind obedience” to anyone.
The fact is it is in the criminal code that you must comply with a lawful order given to you by a sworn peace officer, and this covers a narrow specific set of commands that they may issue for a certain reason, usually in the name of public safety. Scandals and bribery have no relation to this law.
In this matter it would have been the time when the police were given orders to clear a park or other public space of people illegally camping on it. Telling you to vacate the park is a lawful order you must comply with or you can be arrested for that alone and this is important to know because you’ve committed a crime and that means the officer can do what is necessary to place you under arrest.
If you aren’t breaking any laws they aren’t going to touch you.
It’s amazing the difference in treatment you can expect from them before and after you cross that line.
Learning these simple rules will keep you from getting your ass kicked by the police.
I don’t know about all that other stuff, I just know that when a sworn peace officer gives you a lawful order to comply you must do so and if you don’t that by itself is a crime. In this case they were ordered to disperse from public property, definitely a lawful order. l
Unfortunately the way society is set up we aren’t given the option to decide which laws we want to obey and which we don’t.
Unless I’m mistaken OWS was engaged in activism to bring attention to their agenda about financial system reform, not changing codes about where one an camp out all night for weeks on end.
This being the case, hasn’t the point of all this activism stuff like the sit-ins of the sixties always been to confront and challenge the authorities?
Hasn’t this always been using tactics of passive physical force to disrupt certain operations of the establishment? Sure it does, I remember they used to give lessons on how to make yourself go limp and heavy so it took lots more police to take you away.
The whole point of activism almost inevitably involves obstructing something to the point where you get arrested en masse, and thus get on the news and bring attention to your cause.
It occurs to me this new generation of activists seems to think it was a surprise they were being arrested for occupying public spaces, perhaps some of the seasoned veterans from decades past can tell them what happened at sit ins.
But back on topic toward your reply it’s important to realize, as for telling police officers “no”, those men have no control at all over OWS’s target of agenda, and trespassing and overnight camping codes in public park and spaces are what they are. I don’t see any connection to any moral duties inherent to OWS telling police they can stick it when told it was time to disperse.
John,
I believed as you did a mere 5 months ago. I am a retired special ed teach. I have been a girl scout, cub scout, and loy scout leader. I was vp of my childrens PTA. In the same school I was teaching.
Until I saw with my OWN eyes. UNLAWFUL orders. Police who have lied.
I was naive…believing if I didn’t break a law…they could not arrest me. My friend was had an officer accidently bump into her……only to have HER arrested for battery of a police officer? Charges never filed…but she’s still out the thousand dollars it cost to a bails bondsman. She was not breaking ANY law.
It happens ALL the time down at Civic center…not because of “camping” there has not been tents or tarps in WEEKS. Arrests are made solely because the protestors won’t go away. So they make something up arrest them……then never file charges.
I WISH I was still naive…. : )
Tammy
John: Thank you for letting us know that “it’s important to realize, as for telling police officer no, ………..” since we are retarded and you have to make judgments and explain what the rules are for us. So good of you to tell us how we should behave and think. In fact, you appear a little tedious and seem to have to use your “steamrolling shouting” abilities to get us to conform to what you alone think is right for us.
“since we are retarded and you have to make judgments and explain what the rules are for us.”
Well I was wondering what kind of affliction would have made you make such an illogical comparison between current USA and Nazi Germany, now I know.
As for what “I alone” think is right for you, I don’t know how you’ve interpreted this to be that, but this started on the premise of police issuing “lawful orders” that you can be arrested for non compliance with.
That is under state and local codes I had no part of legislating.
Some guidelines of which can be found here:
http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/CrowdMgtGuidelines.pdf
See guideline #8 specifically. If you wish to keep your head in a hole in the ground, and blame the big meanyhead guy john if you get arrested, be my guest, everyone else will know the law.
Lastly as for “steamrolling shouting” THIS IS HOW WE SHOUT AT PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET and I can’t find any of that rude stuff in my posts but if you really like that kind of thing well that’s the kind of thing you like. I can learn, give me a chance…. if perhaps you really meant long winded filibustering I am exceptionally talented at that, though hadn’t really gone there yet. If I do and it’s a problem you might find http://www.hookedonphonics helpful. I understand it’s raised the literacy rates in America significantly.
Actually Lois, back in the early years of this century, we counted 4 homeless men gunned down by SDPD in and around OB over about a 3 year period, the last one was Daniel “the Walking Man” Woodyard, in Feb. 2003. In late Feb of that year we took the issue before the Citizens Review Board. I definitely remember the guy with the tree branch being killed.
Frank: I do remember there were others around that time that were gunned down. I had moved out of Point Loma and don’t remember specifically all the details, but I think I remember the one with the branch because I was in the area at that time. I guess that one stuck with me because I was so close to it. Very disturbing feelings, especially that many in such a short period of time. Wasn’t after the last one the time they started using tazers or something of that sort? As it has been said before, ONE is too many.
P.S. As I said before, you ARE OB. Hope to see you at the meeting.
P.S. You said that the last one was taken to the Citizens Review Board. Perhaps that had something to do with using Tazers? Hopefully something good will come of this last Board meeting. Cruelty for cruelty’s sake is beyond my understanding.
I remember those well too, Frank- all the incidents were outrageous because they involved “weapons” of dubious danger- the tree branch perhaps the most ridiculous given the number of officers on the scene, but wasn’t another a cement trowel?
The other thing about them I thought was needless was they not only killed (rather than wounded) these people, in each instance the officer(s) discharging their weapons saw fit to keep firing until the weapon was empty, or at least it seemed so from the number of rounds fired.
I had the impression at the time maybe there was an instructional flyer posted in the locker room at the station, stating policy like :”If you fire your weapon, empty your weapon. Dead men tell no tales.”
IIRC San Diego began a long string of trigger happy officer shootings not long after the Sagon Penn incident, more so than most cities.
In any case we shouldn’t paint them all with the same brush, unless we want them all to figure “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” and just go out and live up to our expectations.
To the bearded ob bean: you need to think beyond two-demensional reality, especially if you are going to talk about history.
What these people are talking about is means rather than ends. The SS began by using the very same tactics of oppression, supression of free speech and assemby, that we see at the Civic Center Plaza. By the way, one of the first acts of the Brown Shirts, when Hitler came to power, was to round up the homeless on Berlin city streets and ship them off to the first concentration camps.
As someone who was imprisoned in 1970 by the last fascist dictator in Europe – Portugal’s Salazar – I will be willing to sit down with you over coffee or a picher of beer and discuss what fascism looks like.
It’s a great leap in faith to make this comparison, no matter what dimension you refer to. When John Boehner burns down the US Capitol and compels the President to decree to him power to suspend the rights of citizens, perhaps we can talk. Oh, and of course he will outlaw the Democrat party and arrest anyone thought to have any sympathy with said party. We will also await the, uh, Washington Laws. As for the brown shirts, the homeless were not the only ones rounded up at the beginning, but also Jews, Communists, other political opponents, homosexuals etc, and anyone thought not to be sufficiently loyal to the burgeoning Nazi party. Concentration camps were initially set up for political prisoners, and later more specifically, Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, etc.
As for being imprisoned by fascists in Portugal, my sympathy goes out to you. But comparing our government with this government is nonsense on stilts. The means, however insulting to you and others, are stretched beyond credulity in likening them to monsters. One example here and there does not a Nazi state make.
I am delighted to see that you will allow Mr. Neptun to talk with you if he agrees to your terms.
Wanted to thank you Rocky for your great reporting. And of course, not one word or photo in the “new” U-T. Did any video news stations cover it?
The attorney’s name is Adriane Bracciale. I would send this to the author to fix the article but I don’t know how :x
Bearded OBecean:
I am sure Mr. Neptun is not awaiting your sympathy going out to him.
“One example here and there does not a Nazi state make.”
Mr. Obecean: Open your eyes to what is going on around you. Sorry, “One example here and there” is hardly credible or supported.
We must agree to disagree. Where you see a burgeoning Nazi state, I see the greatest force for mankind in history. While there will always be great trials and horrors associated with any nation, the vast good of our nation outweighs the bad.
Again, when the citizens of OB are murdered en masse and dumped into the ocean, then we can discuss the similarities. When smoke stacks start appearing in PB, then we’ve probably passed that point that you fear. If you find that likely to happen, why the hell would you stick around?
As for Mr Neptun, my sympathy does go out to him if he was detained by the fascist government. Much like my sympathies go out to the courageous political prisoners rotting away in labor camps in China, Cuba among others for doing nothing more than opposing totalitarian governments. And as far as allowing him to speak on my terms, you’re reading into something that doesn’t exist.
Hopefully we won’t have any NWO conspiracy theorists producing maps of all the alleged FEMA concentration camps, the tunnels of the “D.U.M.B.” (deep underground military bases), the prison railroad trains with all the plastic coffins awaiting dissidents to fill them.
On all that stuff (especially the FEMA camps and plastic coffins, all real) I gotta say look what happened when they gave Bush such unreasonable criticism about Katrina. Big surprise, he took action.
The funny thing is ……Nazi Germany just didn’t start with killing millions. Please do some research and look at what was happening BEFORE That…..and the beginning of Hitler in power. What steps did he take? It might be enlightening.
You brush of another comments about fascism…yet have you lived under a fascist state? How it comes into power? You don’t believe someone who has…..and see’s it’s warning signs?
Those who refuse to learn…..aim to repeat.
Rocky didn’t say we were there yet……it put up a warning flare…. : )
Like your post “Nazi Germany didn’t just start just killing millions.” I recall how Hitler started out as “high school drop out, dirt bag, vagabond, his hatred of Jews, Austria’s economy, etc.” Your recall is very good.
It is not the duty of the police to protect you.
Their job is to protect the corporation and arrest code breakers.
case sittings
Sapp Vs. Tallahassee , 348 So. 2nd 363 ,
Reiff vs. City of Phila. 477 F. Supp. 1262,
Lynch vs. NC Dept. of Justice 376 S.E. 2nd 247
Thanks for the info. I am starting to look them up.
These police shootings are something that has been going on for some time. It seems as though every since Lewis was shot, the cops just aren’t to careful about the perps safety. That was way back. ’69 or so. Then Mahone. Plugged in the back as I recall. The feller on West Point Loma Blvd. who ended up with the cops club,so he gets killed. What? ’89 or so. The Art on the bus stop benches. A pair of hands, a garden stake. I’m sure every one who was around will remember that year.Something like 10 or 12 shootings in under a year. So don’t be too suprised when some one meets their demise at the hands of the San Diego police. Hell, they burnt that liquor store in S.E.San Diego to the ground with every body inside,rather than negotiate for the hostages. I guess I could be misremembering.
Hey Mr Rick – yeah, I remember a lot of your references – you have them mainly right. Not completely. Pete Mahone shot the cop through the mouth and then he was wounded in the police response – both lived. Pete went to prison and then got out years later and died in the Bay Area later years. The “feller on West Point Loma Blvd” was the son Tony of our dear friend Diana – who had been an OBcean since the late sixties, who had moved away for teaching purposes, who today still can not set foot in OB because of the trauma of losing her youngest son. Tony had somehow grabbed one of the cop’s nun-chunks as they were wrestling with him for some bogus minor violation – and yes they shot him dead right there in 3rd Corner parking lot. Soon after we had a memorial rally and gathering for him. This was 1990 or 91.
There were so many fatal cop shootings in San Diego during that period, that a group of local artists put together a series of bus bench “ads” mimicking all the “weapons” people were holding before being killed: one was a tomato stake, another a garden trowel, one guy had no weapon so his “ad” showed 2 open hands, etc.
Then later this century, as I have mentioned before, there were the 4 homeless men killings by SDPD – each guy had some mental issues, yes, but they were living breathing human beings whose lives were ended by the “Serve and Protect” uniformed public servants: the guy under the bridge along the San Diego River, the guy in the Big Lots parking lot down near Rosecrans, the guy with the tree branch on Midway, and then Danny The Walker, in Feb 2003.
The San Diego Police are plainly hard core criminals themselves along with the monsters who give them orders. There’s no other words to describe those scum.
Have you witnessed their trite little game of “Good cop, bad cop?” What kind of fools do they take us for? And I agree with your statements totally. Can you believe these same people talking about “my sympathy goes out to you…..?
By the way, maybe the Nazis were heathens and monsters, but in this country we sanitize that kind of thing all in the name of “Rights we do not have.”
Dear John:
YAWN!!!!!!!
I’m not up on the 4 homeless guy’s killed recently by the SDPD,however, I wonder about the time and circumstances involved in each killing. Was it connected in any way? Same cop or same M.O. It could be some kind of Magnum Force situation. My inner- crook must be showing!
Interesting question, Mr. Rick. I only came back to San Diego in 1998. These 4 killings were in early 2000. Short period of time. Maybe we can research the internet for these incidents. Mr. Gormlie would probably be the best source.
Tell us more about your “inner-crook.” Sounds interesting.
Connections of the 4 killings:
1) each were homeless men
2) each with mental issues
3) each confronted by SDPD for their aberrant public behavior;
4) each shot numerous times by SDPD
5) each died
6) each were killed within 0-3 miles from OB proper
7) each killing exonerated
San Diego Cowboys at their finest – most vulnerable people who lost their lives for no good reason. How many of the posters on this topic “hearts go out to the victims of this sort of thing?” We need to rid ourselves of this phrase and replace it with something else that tells us who the cowboys are, and who are the truly caring of other human beings. It is beyond my wisdom to understand that a certain group of people must derive their sense of power this way. Cannot understand that “as a genuine card carrying human being,” these human beings were never offered any kind of mental health care, and never able to afford it, and mostly probably could not understand what was happening to them, mainly because of their illness.
Frank, 7) this was an item that clearly stood out to me. And how the general public could have overlooked it. I clearly remember after the last killing, there were no more “cowboy” killings and there seemed after the citizens oversight committee that you mentioned, this stopped and in came the tasers, rubber bullets. Correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you, Frank. You are a kind, genuine human being.
Sorry, I meant Citizens Review Board.