by Channel 10News / February 27, 2011
A veterans group is moving forward with plans to relocate to a new neighborhood although the group says it is not welcome there.
After a month’s delay, Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 1392 is working to make a former market in Ocean Beach at the corner of Ebers Street and Point Loma Avenue a permanent home as it continues to talk with community members about the one sticking point.
“At the end of the day, the alcohol is the issue,” said neighbor Mike Zucchet.
The post spent 27 years at its old Newport Avenue location until the lease was not renewed last summer. Residents near the new location said they worry about noise, crowds and drunken behavior.
“I want to sit in my patio and enjoy the sun without the noise that’s associated with that kind of camaraderie,” said resident Patty Lewis.
Post commander William Havrilla said he rejects the idea that the VFW post is nothing more than a bar.
“It is not a bar,” said Havrilla. “It is… social quarters for veterans who I’m pretty sure have all earned the right if they want to go have a beer they can have a beer.”
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{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }
I used to drop off free fortnightly publications to the old VFW site. The neighbors need not worry – these guys are not college students or bikers.
The question is why can’t the VFW find a location where they are welcome?? If they were such good neighbors for the last 27 years on Newport Street, why are they having such a hard time finding a new home??
Why is there no another landlord in the entire 92107 zip code that it willing to lease space to them? From what I understand, they were month to month tenants for the last five years — why didn’t they try to find a new location or try to improve the way that OBceans perceive their organization during that period of time?
If the VFW had been “self policing” the area around their location on Newport Street so that they were not being “unfairly” blamed for the homeless issues, they might not be looking for a new home now. It seems to me that moving to a location where the neighborhood is universally opposed to it, is not a good way to “improve” the way the VFW is perceived either.
If the VFW wants a battle, they are going to get it. It just seems like a big waste of time, energy, emotion, and money.
I hope they win and you lose.
BTW, there are answers to all the questions you’re asking. Look no futher than the rag and look in all the past articles about this.
Deborah-So you wanna challenge the VFW to a fight. OK, I’m not gonna shirk from my responsibilities to my comrades, my community nor my working class. What you and your allies in Point Loma perceive as “a big waste of time, energy, emotion, and money” is nothing less than a fight for JUSTICE. I hereby pledge all the resources between heaven and earth at my command so help me God! I’m confident that most former members of the US armed services and any reasonable persons will be on our side as well. I also hope the attorney for the VFW is reading this ’cause he’s gotta know that he will have allies in whatever field this “battle” as you call it takes place. This is the good fight brothers and sisters. Now lets get into it!
danny stay out of our neighborhood and its business.
I belive Danny already lives in the neighborhood.
Or rather, I assume he does. Even if not this is a good cause and he is on the correct side to be on.
I can personally confirm that Dan lives in Ocean Beach, and for the last decade or more has been involved in efforts to improve the community. Danny served on the OB Planning Board for several years – a totally thankless, but necessary, job.
NASTY BOY! Bring your manners to the meeting please.
Thanks everybody-Maybe I should go back to Kenya where my father was an afrocentric radical before he married my mom who was a Marxist radical illegal allien who lived in that foreign hawaii place and worked as a community (read commie) organizer under the SLA, hippie wierdo, punk Ayers. Then as an overpaid, lazy public service employee I could defend, with impunity, not only my fellow veterans but the of the entire working class’ right to organize, assemble and petition.-Note to OBBOB; the hem of your class garment is showing when you refer to OUR community and OUR businesses. I guess I missed the change in ownership. “Welcome to OB- A privately owned subsidiary of BOB” Has a nice ring to it don’t you think?
I think when OBBOB looked in the mirror the other day he forgot to slap himself.
Oh yeah Deborah too.
Let’s start with the fact that their resources are very limited, and they cannot afford the rent at the places that are available.
Come to think of it, you can end there, too.
pay attention Deborah
the owners on Newport had other ideas which will make them more money whch meant the VFW had to re-locate
and for you to say ” If the VFW wants a battle, they are going to get it.”
have you been to the meetings, outside of your little clique?
look forward to seeing you at the OB planning Board meeting, Wed. March 2, 6pm
at the OB rec center
think you can come down from your perch and bring some ideas, or will you be in battle?
I’ll see you at the OB Planning Board meeting! And, I’ll be prepared to bring some ideas too!!
Deborah: why do you hate America?
abby it’s obviously Obamas fault.
Bobob; Isn’t everything? :-)
Love how some people here are so quick to “support the troops” as long as all they have to do it wear a flag pin or stick a magnet on their SUV.
-the hem of YOUR class politics is showing
“At the end of the day, the alcohol is the issue,” said neighbor Mike Zucchet”
Interesting statement from Mr. Zucchet…
I do recall Mr. Zucchet’s fund raising party for his council run at the Thursday Club. The Thursday Club is also located in a Point Loma neighborhood. There was plenty of beer and wine served at Mr. Zucchet’s party. Why is it ok for his purposes but not ok for the vets? What makes his situation more acceptable? Maybe the Thursday club needs to surrender their liquor license in a show of good faith to the community and be a good neighbor. Just a thought…..
Interesting……..a bunch of high society fat cats want to have a few cocktails, and it’s not a problem! But heaven forbid a bunch of dirty old vets want to get together for a few, then GOD NO! We can’t have that, can we?
The Thursday Club is not next to two elementary schools and a church. Hardly a good comparison!
Deborah, I don’t get what you are saying.
What difference does it make if the buildings adjacent to an establishment are a church, school, private residence? The fact is the “PEOPLE” are present in all of these buildings. So if you can have liquor served at a club whether it be the Thursday club or the VFW club and people are nearby, present, onsite what is the difference???? What is the difference???? What is the difference????
Don’t kids live in the neighborhood where the Thursday Club is? Don’t people that go to church live near where the Thursday club is? Don’t veterns live near where the Thursday cluf is?
What is the difference?
Considering how small OB is, is there anything that isn’t more than a block or 2 from a school or church?
I think you need to remove the stick.
my good friends live across from the thursday club and they have never had any problems with the thursday club or its guests, not one complaint from them at least. the same cannot be said about the holy ob vfw and its patrons
BOBO – I’m not sure if you’ve been following the conversation here on the Rag to date, but I’m pretty sure your assertion in the ‘complaints on the VFW’ arena has already been addressed and thoroughly discredited. Others on this thread (named Deborah) acknowledge this and are now saying that the VFW should have not only been responsible for its own members’ actions but those of the homeless that frequented their old alley.
On your more specific point about neighbors complaining about the VFW – that’s patently impossible. The VFW has had no residential neighbors for the past 27 years.
BOBOB- the condescension of YOUR class for the VFW is showing :-p
bump ^
Good for them. Those of you who have an issue with this, get over yourselves.
Goatskull- THEM is US. An injury to one is an injury to all!
Goatskull- Remember that an injury to one is an injury to all. The struggle of veterans to organize and operate their organizations free from outside interference is the struggle of a free people. What happens to THEM, happens to US.
Just received this email circulating among those who do not want to see the VFW post open on Pt Loma Ave.:
Greetings all. Since our last e-mail update a few weeks ago, Nancy and I have attended two more meetings hosted by Councilman Kevin Faulconer with VFW representatives at OB Mainstreet Association. Importantly, the meetings have kept the lines of communication open, and Kevin has done an outstanding job of trying to get everyone to work together to find a solution that works for both VFW and the community.
The problem is (still) that alternative locations that fit the VFW’s 92107 needs have not materialized yet. There is still a lot of work going on in this regard, and last week we engaged the services of an experienced, well connected local realtor who seems to be making some progress.
For the last two weeks, we have made it clear to the VFW that we will contribute whatever it takes (legally, financially, etc.) to help get them out of the lease they signed at Point Loma Avenue unscathed, and we offered to pay for a realtor going forward to help them find a new location.
But the bottom line is that the VFW is clearly getting restless and is wanting to move forward at the Point Loma Avenue location until/unless another viable location is found. They seem to have made a decision to move forward with tenant improvements and, perhaps as early as next week, with their liquor license transfer application while the search for a new location goes on. They have been informed and they fully understand that doing so (especially applying for the liquor license) will cause a negative reaction in the community and will jeopardize the cooperative approach everyone has been taking so far, and they seem to have made a calculation that they are ready and prepared for that to happen.
We have another meeting tentatively scheduled for next Thursday. I think it will be even more clear at that point what the VFW’s next move is, and then we will need to meet and evaluate where we need to go from there.
Suffice to say this is not good news. There seems to be an element in the leadership of the VFW that wants to work toward consensus and avoid a protracted, expensive, and contentious battle (where there will be no “winners”) over the propriety of that location for a VFW canteen. There also seems to be an element in their leadership that wants to press forward, come what may, and in some sense may even welcome the battle. Two weeks ago the former sentiment seemed to be guiding the VFW decision making process, but right now the latter sentiment seems to be ruling the day.
I don’t believe that any final decision has been made by anybody. In fact we are still confident that a viable alternative location in Ocean Beach will solve everybody’s problems, and hopefully that alternative materializes sooner rather than later. But we just wanted to put it out there that we need to be ready and thinking about a larger, longer battle.
We will send another update next week and figure out what our next moves are after that. Until then hang in there and see you in the neighborhood.
Mike
Can you supply a location for future meetings ?
from above — in case you didn’t catch it — “For the last two weeks, we have made it clear to the VFW that we will contribute whatever it takes (legally, financially, etc.) to help get them out of the lease they signed at Point Loma Avenue unscathed, and we offered to pay for a realtor going forward to help them find a new location”
So…. The rich folks of south OB (this location is definately in OB) are going to PAY to have the VFW moved from their lawfully entitled location? Is there any more case that needs to be made?
Hey Rich Folks…. why don’t you just pay the difference in rent for the VFW to move into some nice digs on Newport Ave — then the problem will just go away for you.
This isn’t about concerned neighbors, reasonable people or any other thing indicated by posters in opposition. This is simply about people with money who feel that they can outweigh a situation by “retaining” Point Loma’s wayword Strippergate victim and anything else that their money can buy in order achieve what they “want” or clearly don’t want in this case.
The fact that their front man is a criminal who was kicked out of office for bribery should tell you that these people will stop at nothing to accomplish their end.
Too bad Faulconer is bought and paid for by the same Point Loma wanna-be Bourgeoisie who hide behind some pretty boy front man and send all of their campaign contributions through non-profits like the Thursday Club — legally of course.
Even if the VFW chooses to move forward and the ABC awards the license (which they should, since there is a ton of precedent for it)…does anyone think that Faulconer/Zucchet wouldn’t just have it shut down by the SD Vice (bought and paid for by the Mayor/Faulconer)?
Don’t be foolish. They won’t.
Let’s just hope for the sake of the VFW that this “realtor” he has indicated has pull with the OBMA who has clearly already kicked the VFW off Newport Ave. The Vice President clearly OBMA clearly indicated her position at the meeting at the new location. Then drummed up a bunch of fearmongered dim-wits to come down to the last OBPB meeting and then even went as far as quoting herself in the paper to make sure there was no doubt. The OBMA can say they are “apolitical” all they want to…but this isn’t the behavior of a group who owes the VFW so much.
You can always tell the quality of a legal education based on the number of names called vs cases sited.
Uppity snob from PL continues class distinction discussion. RB vs. VFW – March 2011. Thanks for making it easy. …and you can bet that my “cheap” degree allows me to point out the facts just as easily as any other. And be snarky if I so choose.
Since you don’t recognize that you are the one making class distinctions and using undocumented stereotypes, the cheap degree has already been confirmed.
I never said that I wasn’t. I’m clearly making class distinctions. Don’t worry RB…when you need legal assistance, you will come to me, whether you know it or not, and you will appreciate my cheap degree.
Instead of attacking my cheap degree, I invite you to counter any of my statements with fact. My facts remain uncountered.
One can always tell when a person (RB) is mentally defeated and desperate when they attack the person and not the facts. It’s Debate 101, when you don’t have a counter….stall so that you can think.
OBLaw- bump ^
Seems like everyone needs to take a breath, cool their jets for a bit, maybe sideline the childish rants about girding for battle (on both sides) et al. The VFW and supporters insist they aren’t just a bar, & promise to try to be good neighbors. Why not give the group a chance to prove that? Why not suggest they sign a short-term lease, if possible, say 1-2 years, see how the veterans and neighbors interact, see if the vets live up to their word? All this heated rhetoric doesn’t do anyone much good at this point.
BTW, I used to buy comic books and candy every Saturday at that very spot, I think it used to be called the Sea & Shore market back in the ’60s when I was a wee lad. I still live just a few blocks away & now walk my dog past there several times a week. It’s been a pretty forlorn-looking site since Rancho’s folded, maybe the VFW can bring a little life (but not too much!) to the block??? Viva OB!
The big problem I see with a short-term trial period is the money that would have to be invested to re-purpose the building. If you average those costs out over 10 or 20 years they’re far less significant than over 1 or 2…
Any body have any idea where the POW flag went from the foot of Newport ?
I heard from person at the wall that the VFW took it down in protest over the current way they were being treated by the OB community…can anyone confirm or deny ?
Check w/Julie Klein, vice-president of the Ocean Beach Mainstreet Association (OBMA), chair of its public safety committee and leader of those upstanding americans who don’t want a VFW in OB (ok it’s really about protecting the children>wink;-)wink;-) & its really about the alcohol (ha :-D, ha :-D) Lookit how mad they (‘cept for Zucchett) get when exposed!?:>p
I sense a meeting at the flagpole coming on…ride your Schwinn sting rays to the pole and settle this once and for all…..winner gets bragging rights and the cutest girl in 5th grade. nuf said and i aint nobody …
Thinking- Just because there are broader issues that will be adjudicated in the proper venue by serious people shouldn’t dissuade us from getting involved in an old fashioned, infantile American p!ss!ing contest! – Right?
Money is money. Real estate is real estate. If the Post has the money, they can rent where ever they like. If people (who are probably secretly on lots of prescription drugs) are objecting to drunks, they can start with the bars on Newport that spew out smashed stupid out of towners on a nightly basis. The Post is for veterans of foreign wars. They have a right to get drunk, or drink soda pop, or coffee, or whatever they want. They want to hang out with each other and play music and pool and laugh and dance. So if you like to live in a free country then live up to those ideals and live and let live. Unless you signed up and went and fought and suffered. Oh no? Then really, just shut the fuck up. There are lots of quiet beach communities up and down the California coast that have no VFW, and no color, and no diversity. Buy a home there and go get stuffed. What a tired obnoxious tedious debate. And by the way, there is an international airport five minutes from OB, people. Get the f out and see the world. Jesus.
I heard there was going to be a fundraiser for the VFW this Sunday. Anyone have more info?